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Unread postAuthor: Biopyro » Mon Apr 20, 2009 11:14 am

psycix wrote:Judges could take the the votes into account when deciding.

I disagree entirely. I think that favourite cannon voting should be done after the judges decision for this exact reason. Peer pressure may not be evident, but it will likely have an effect and it might mean a vote for the wrong reasons.

I'm not saying the judge will vote because everyone said it was thier favourite, just that they might weight certain features more or less because of the public vote.
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Unread postAuthor: Davidvaini » Mon Apr 20, 2009 11:16 am

Personally I think if production cannons are allowed they will simply win, look at all the different contests over the years, the CNC'd cannons are always in the top 3 and most of the time they win. (electric thermal gun, revolver grenade launcher, etc).

I have noticed this from many websites that I have been on, The people with a lot of money that can CNC parts or spend a good amount of money on parts (huge co2 tanks, awesome regular, huge valve) are generally the ones to win contests. I find it ironic that they are the ones who win therefor win the prize money and already have a lot of money, while the person that tried really hard only to get second place doesn't get the money and clearly needs it. I have confident in making sweet unique cannons(as I have done in the past and currently am.), but If production cannons/ CNC'd cannons were allowed I really would feel like NOT entering the contest.

My favorite cannons are CNC'd, or production cannons, but entering in to a contest that is supposed to support innovation of the average spudfiles member?
look at all of the top 3 cannons from this link:
http://www.spudfiles.com/forums/favorit ... 14711.html

It's what people like, its what I like, but I know if entries like this are included in another contest, I know im not gonna even bother entering.

And I am the one who really wanted an innovation contest from the get go.
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Unread postAuthor: ramses » Mon Apr 20, 2009 11:55 am

It's what people like, its what I like, but I know if entries like this are included in another contest, I know im not gonna even bother entering.


That's why there might be a special section for the machined cannons. the line must be defined, though, because if someone just machines a piston or something and their cannon gets lumped in with stuff like the ETG and the Eclipse they are sure to loose. maybe set a maximum number of machined parts before it gets lumped in with the crazy expensive stuff.

I still am not clear if there is an entry fee, or if there will be a budget.
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Unread postAuthor: Technician1002 » Mon Apr 20, 2009 12:05 pm

ramses wrote:
It's what people like, its what I like, but I know if entries like this are included in another contest, I know im not gonna even bother entering.


That's why there might be a special section for the machined cannons. the line must be defined, though, because if someone just machines a piston or something and their cannon gets lumped in with stuff like the ETG and the Eclipse they are sure to loose. maybe set a maximum number of machined parts before it gets lumped in with the crazy expensive stuff.

I still am not clear if there is an entry fee, or if there will be a budget.


I like the idea. Class them on the tools used in construction.
1 hand tools
2 hand power tools
3 home shop tools, skill saw, drill press, table saw, etc
4 machinists tools, CNC, milling machines, lathes, etc
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Unread postAuthor: ramses » Mon Apr 20, 2009 12:17 pm

there was no idea. my point was that if someone used a borrowed lathe to put rings on a piston, it would be unfair to lump their cannon in with stuff that was completely machined, like Larda's hybrid, Eclipse, etc. most things like that could be done by hand or with common tools, it is just easier to do with a proper tool (lathe). Stuff like Larda's hybrid couldn't be done by hand in any reasonable way.
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Unread postAuthor: john bunsenburner » Mon Apr 20, 2009 1:11 pm

So I understand correctly the idea behind this is not to make a cool, sexy or otherwise pleasing cannon but to build something that will improve the spudgunning hobby, with a valve, construction meathod or what ever?

I have an idea if it is supposed to be a cool cannon, but if it is supposed to acctually be a new innovation( something like inventing a more efficient, cheep or relyable valve or easyly rifeling a barrel, or something like that) then i am rather clueless.

Also, if it is a new innovation and doesn't have to be a whole cannon, can we participate in the contest for free, but not take the money in case we win(the money would then be split between the other two winners)?
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Unread postAuthor: POLAND_SPUD » Mon Apr 20, 2009 1:34 pm

@starman
I am a little befuddled at the concern that the judging will be overly biased or skewed
the point is not whether judges are/will be biased... the point is that even if they are 100% fair their fairness can always be questioned...

the competition is already quite subjective - you can't objectively compare guns - as there is no instrument for measuring coolness
so there is no need to make it even more subjective by selecting several people who will judge canons

if you leave that to members no one can be blamed apart from the whole community

instead of selecting the winner judges can give a special innovation prize
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Unread postAuthor: PCGUY » Mon Apr 20, 2009 4:17 pm

I think you guys are trying to make this far too complicated! I just wanted to rule out companies using a product as an entry... I guess if the owner of a company wanted to design something for the contest, it would be no different than someone else with machine shop access entering the contest.

I will review all of the posts in here and get ahold of the sponsors and come up with a proposal, this thread has grown quite a bit!
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Unread postAuthor: MrCrowley » Mon Apr 20, 2009 4:30 pm

If we go with forum members, we'd definitely have to just do a simple poll. Having a points table for each cannon will be too hard in my opinion.

But if we have judges, we can do a more sophisticated points table system.
Even JSR said it himself, something small and somewhat simple came second because of it's unique size thanks to a forum poll. Do you want the same thing to happen again?

I'd prefer more 'Deus Ex Machina'* cannons to win, or be placed in the top 3.

*Hope that's spelled right, and when I mean 'Deus Ex Machina' cannons, i'm referring to how a cannon as innovative as DEM, didn't do so well due to bad forum polling. But with a judge system it should do quite well.

The only way I can see forum judges being unfair is if you've built a simple but cool looking cannon, you probably wont win under a judging system.


Anyway, we can sort this out later. We have more pressing issues to address like sorting out classes, start and finishing date, rules etc
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Unread postAuthor: Brian the brain » Mon Apr 20, 2009 4:37 pm

About time top wrap it up...I'm loosing interest.. :D
Mods, PCGuy, the ball is in your park now..


B
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Oh my friggin god stop being so awesome, that thing is pure kick ass. Most innovative and creative pneumatic that the files have ever come by!

Can't ask for a better compliment!!
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Unread postAuthor: jrrdw » Mon Apr 20, 2009 6:42 pm

The first offical contest that was won by Clide with the Golf Ball Semi went like this: Moderators judged all the entries down to a few in each class, then it was up to members vote to decide the winner.

If I'm wrong PM me and I'll edit this, but I think I got it right.

PCGUY has enough reading to do so please, no getting upset about locking.
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Unread postAuthor: MrCrowley » Mon Apr 20, 2009 9:06 pm

That's not that bad of an idea, the cannons that don't really deserve to win can be filtered out and then members can vote. You're still left with the chance of a cannon that has less innovation then others winning. But hey, if it keeps everyone happy. Whatever. :)
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