Login    Register
User Information
Username:
Password:
We are a free and open
community, all are welcome.
Click here to Register
Sponsored
Who is online

In total there are 67 users online :: 2 registered, 0 hidden and 65 guests


Most users ever online was 155 on Mon Aug 15, 2016 1:40 am

Registered users: Bing [Bot], Yahoo [Bot] based on users active over the past 5 minutes

The Team
Administrators
Global Moderators
global_moderators.png CS

Forward Venting COAX....

A place to ask general spud cannon related questions.
Sponsored 
  • Author
    Message

Unread postAuthor: jagerbond » Tue May 19, 2009 6:54 am

Technician1002 wrote:The area is not the issue. It is good and engineered for. I'm looking at long skinny ports. Long ports mean a long piston stroke to uncover them. I was thinking of covering more of the circumference in port width so a shorter stroke will open the same area in less time. The less metal the better with just enough for structural integrity.


Gotcha now. Yes we are attempting a swirl so that the air flow from opposing sides won't "run into each other".

For reference, they are inch by 3/16" and area equals barrel area when piston moves .66"

Testing and videos to ensue. Looking forward to rattling off a couple of the lead "pellets" USGF made. Holy crap that's gonna kick.

Mike
Sureshot Inc. / http://www.ultimatespudgun.com
  • 0

User avatar
jagerbond
1st Lieutenant
1st Lieutenant
 
Posts: 286
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2008 5:33 am
Location: Hawaii
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: Technician1002 » Tue May 19, 2009 6:55 am

jagerbond wrote:
Technician1002 wrote:It looks like only 1/2 the circumference is ports.


They run full circumference and area is 130% barrel area.

Technician1002 wrote:That style will need a very aggressive pilot as when the chamber empties, the piston will attempt to move to the low pressure side re closing the ports. It lacks the positive feedback to pop open on it's own when triggered.


Not sure what you mean, our testing so far the piston slam back and it dumps fast. We are simply pulling the 1/4" quick disconnect off after filling to 125PSI.

Beauty is breach loading. So load projectile and add plunger bolt to seal rear of barrel and fire.

Also, based on this same design it can be converted to a hybrid. With the Hybrid, there is a light spring added behind and to re-seat the piston, gas is injected in to the chamber area then, through the pilot, air is added to desired PSI filling both the pilot area and chamber through one way valve. Upon ignition, the piston starts moving back, compressing the pilot air and also uncovering exhaust ports (as USGF noted) allowing the piston to retract . Of course we will step it up to AL chamber material.

Mike
Sureshot Inc. / http://www.ultimatespudgun.com


Mike, I was thinking in terms of the rate the chamber empties vs the pilot area. If the pilot area empties in 30 ms and the chamber could have emptied in 20, then the valve will regulate the discharge rate to that of the pilot, or 30 ms.

A 10 second discharge of the pilot will discharge the chamber in 10 seconds as the piston re-closes down to the pilot pressure and the pilot pressure pushes it back into position.

The hybrid should work very well.
  • 0

User avatar
Technician1002
Chief of Staff
Chief of Staff
 
Posts: 5190
Joined: Sat Apr 04, 2009 11:10 am
Reputation: 14

Unread postAuthor: jagerbond » Tue May 19, 2009 7:10 am

Technician1002 wrote:
jagerbond wrote:
Technician1002 wrote:It looks like only 1/2 the circumference is ports.


They run full circumference and area is 130% barrel area.

Technician1002 wrote:That style will need a very aggressive pilot as when the chamber empties, the piston will attempt to move to the low pressure side re closing the ports. It lacks the positive feedback to pop open on it's own when triggered.


Not sure what you mean, our testing so far the piston slam back and it dumps fast. We are simply pulling the 1/4" quick disconnect off after filling to 125PSI.

Beauty is breach loading. So load projectile and add plunger bolt to seal rear of barrel and fire.

Also, based on this same design it can be converted to a hybrid. With the Hybrid, there is a light spring added behind and to re-seat the piston, gas is injected in to the chamber area then, through the pilot, air is added to desired PSI filling both the pilot area and chamber through one way valve. Upon ignition, the piston starts moving back, compressing the pilot air and also uncovering exhaust ports (as USGF noted) allowing the piston to retract . Of course we will step it up to AL chamber material.

Mike
Sureshot Inc. / http://www.ultimatespudgun.com


Mike, I was thinking in terms of the rate the chamber empties vs the pilot area. If the pilot area empties in 30 ms and the chamber could have emptied in 20, then the valve will regulate the discharge rate to that of the pilot, or 30 ms.

A 10 second discharge of the pilot will discharge the chamber in 10 seconds as the piston re-closes down to the pilot pressure and the pilot pressure pushes it back into position.

The hybrid should work very well.


I follow ya, we will install a 3/4 sprinkler valve and test.

Mike
Sureshot Inc. / http://www.ultimatespudgun.com
  • 0

User avatar
jagerbond
1st Lieutenant
1st Lieutenant
 
Posts: 286
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2008 5:33 am
Location: Hawaii
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: Technician1002 » Tue May 19, 2009 9:21 am

jagerbond wrote:I follow ya, we will install a 3/4 sprinkler valve and test.

Mike
Sureshot Inc. / http://www.ultimatespudgun.com


Let me know if it makes a measurable difference. :)
It would be less noticable on heavy slow projectiles, but light fast ones would benifit the most.

I like the idea of the swirl into the barrel. Nice touch. I wish there was a way to compare it with straight without a full rebuild.
  • 0

User avatar
Technician1002
Chief of Staff
Chief of Staff
 
Posts: 5190
Joined: Sat Apr 04, 2009 11:10 am
Reputation: 14

Unread postAuthor: jagerbond » Tue May 19, 2009 2:23 pm

Technician1002 wrote:
jagerbond wrote:I follow ya, we will install a 3/4 sprinkler valve and test.

Mike
Sureshot Inc. / http://www.ultimatespudgun.com


Let me know if it makes a measurable difference. :)
It would be less noticable on heavy slow projectiles, but light fast ones would benifit the most.

I like the idea of the swirl into the barrel. Nice touch. I wish there was a way to compare it with straight without a full rebuild.


We have a standard piston barrel sealer with same specs we will side by side test and see what the differences are.

Mike
Sureshot Inc. / http://www.ultimatespudgun.com
  • 0

User avatar
jagerbond
1st Lieutenant
1st Lieutenant
 
Posts: 286
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2008 5:33 am
Location: Hawaii
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: USGF » Tue May 19, 2009 2:39 pm

Technician1002 wrote:
USGF wrote:Tech, Mike made the slots at an angle from centerline to create a spin. We calculated for slot area much larger than barrel area. He will also incorporate the same style cone we made for Grock's 4" valve. I think there is even rumors of 2 stroke style exhaust ports on the piston to dump the piston quicker and keep it back.

I may be spilling too many beans..... :oops: I may lose my job :cry:

BTW, what little function testing I witnessed was very successful!!


The area is not the issue. It is good and engineered for. I'm looking at long skinny ports. Long ports mean a long piston stroke to uncover them. I was thinking of covering more of the circumference in port width so a shorter stroke will open the same area in less time. The less metal the better with just enough for structural integrity.

:idea:

However when thinking of the O ring on the outside.. Keeping the rings out of the ports becomes a problem as they will want to fall in. It looks like you have thought this out and are one step ahead of me on that one. Lots of rounded ports is best to keep the o rings out of the ports.

Good luck. It looks like a winner. Hope to see a video soon.

As a breech loader, it could even hold a few rounds in the breech to be advanced one at a time with a multi position bolt. Wow. I like it. Keep the breech loading secret. Who knows, it may support semi auto or full auto operation. Supprise me with a video. :D

I hope you keep your job. It must be a great one.


Tech, there is one downside to this job. They don't pay me :D
  • 0

User avatar
USGF
Master Sergeant
Master Sergeant
 
Posts: 173
Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2009 5:39 am
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: jagerbond » Tue May 19, 2009 4:37 pm

USGF wrote:
Technician1002 wrote:
USGF wrote:Tech, Mike made the slots at an angle from centerline to create a spin. We calculated for slot area much larger than barrel area. He will also incorporate the same style cone we made for Grock's 4" valve. I think there is even rumors of 2 stroke style exhaust ports on the piston to dump the piston quicker and keep it back.

I may be spilling too many beans..... :oops: I may lose my job :cry:

BTW, what little function testing I witnessed was very successful!!


The area is not the issue. It is good and engineered for. I'm looking at long skinny ports. Long ports mean a long piston stroke to uncover them. I was thinking of covering more of the circumference in port width so a shorter stroke will open the same area in less time. The less metal the better with just enough for structural integrity.

:idea:

However when thinking of the O ring on the outside.. Keeping the rings out of the ports becomes a problem as they will want to fall in. It looks like you have thought this out and are one step ahead of me on that one. Lots of rounded ports is best to keep the o rings out of the ports.

Good luck. It looks like a winner. Hope to see a video soon.

As a breech loader, it could even hold a few rounds in the breech to be advanced one at a time with a multi position bolt. Wow. I like it. Keep the breech loading secret. Who knows, it may support semi auto or full auto operation. Supprise me with a video. :D

I hope you keep your job. It must be a great one.


Tech, there is one downside to this job. They don't pay me :D


We are blowing up more things than before tho... :wink:
  • 0

User avatar
jagerbond
1st Lieutenant
1st Lieutenant
 
Posts: 286
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2008 5:33 am
Location: Hawaii
Reputation: 0

Sponsored

Sponsor
 


Previous

Return to General Spud Cannon Related

Who is online

Registered users: Bing [Bot], Yahoo [Bot]

Reputation System ©'