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still confused about the different types

A place to ask general spud cannon related questions.
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Unread postAuthor: feathers » Wed Jul 08, 2009 12:38 am

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i post stuff like this like ive done many times and i asked details on how they work not what is it if you asked me the difference in a poppet and spool valve i could type up a page essay or the difference in hp tanks and lp tanks i just want to know how they work cause it looks interesting i expected an intelegent answer not a couple of smart ass know it alls
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Unread postAuthor: Moonbogg » Wed Jul 08, 2009 12:46 am

Well I was only joking a little when I referred you to the wiki page. It really does explain a lot. Also, I have sort of learned that there is kind of a golden rule around here that no one should spoon feed anyone anything, because it is dangerous for them. If Someone told you exactly how a cannon works and exactly how to make it then you did only what they told you and ended up getting hurt, then that would suck for everyone.
But anyway, the way I learned was by searching and then asking more specific questions about stuff I didn't understand. Check out the showcase section. It is by far the greatest way to see real examples I can think of. really, go check it out.
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Unread postAuthor: feathers » Wed Jul 08, 2009 12:51 am

i just want to know how a hybrid works or what a schrader valve is i figured you guys had a thread or sticky that i couldnt find that explained the concepts of how all this stuff works just like that pb diagram they have those for every type of gun there is so i figured maybe you guys had those or drawings or plans or somthing im not stupid and even thought i dont know much about this stuff ive been working with paintball guns for 8 years
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Unread postAuthor: THUNDERLORD » Wed Jul 08, 2009 1:08 am

feathers wrote:... i just want to know how they work cause it looks interesting i expected an intelegent answer not a couple of smart ass know it alls


I'd hardly call people who can read a webpage, use a search function (and spell) "Smart @ss know it alls".
Just because they took 30 seconds or so before cluttering up the forum with questions like "what's a spudgun?""Are there any diagrams on here?"

Maybe it's a good idea to let this post fade into the rest of the cluttered mess that one has to sort through to obtain information while searching here...If you stick around, you'll understand why it gets annoying.

BTW:
...and i asked details on how they work not what is it if you asked me the difference in a poppet and spool valve i could type up a page essay or the difference in hp tanks and lp tanks...


Taken from similar antics on prepackaged paintball sites who were stupid enough to provide spoonfeeding sessions to you OR "idiot savant" ...
Spudders don't play that. :!:
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Unread postAuthor: feathers » Wed Jul 08, 2009 1:16 am

Taken from similar antics on prepackaged paintball sites who were stupid enough to provide spoonfeeding sessions to you OR "idiot savant" ...
Spudders don't play that. :!:


lol is spudding a sport now

and when i asked the questions it was toward veterans who no this site back wards and fowards and could easily point me too a link amoung the thousands of posts

im not looking for spoonfed answers on how to make somthing i was just looking for someone who could run me through the basics every post i looked at it seemed you had to be experienced to understand
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Unread postAuthor: theBOOM » Wed Jul 08, 2009 1:31 am

its not a sport nor is it a hobby .. spudding is an ART!! 8)

seriously feather just use the search function... allso if you paintball then I guess most of the cannons here could be called an air cannon, if you dont know what that is.. then I really do not think you are a mod in a paintball site ....

you want a run through the basics?? GO TO THE WIKI... it has all the basic stuff you need :x :x

BOOM :twisted:
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Unread postAuthor: inonickname » Wed Jul 08, 2009 1:38 am

Damn right it's a sport.

Some people do like to build cannons small..like me

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By the way, people here won't spoonfeed. It's not cause we hate people (thunderlord hates everyone, don't take it personally..jokes thunder). It's because if we tell someone what to do, and they stuff up then parents try to get spudgunning banned. If they learn about the concepts, then they figure out how to build their own, then they don't get hurt. No different from any other hobby..such as pyro

Pnematics work on the same principles as paintball guns, except:

We use a less efficient, higher flow, faster, higher duration valve. Hence why most of our cannons get one shot on a fill, and paintball guns get..a lot more.

The valve is open to imagination, and can be in any form. Hammer valves and spool valves have been used, however ball, sprinkler (diaphragm) and piston valves are more common. Burst disks are also used.

Ball valves you can buy for a few dollars and are simple as, so I'll just link to a few things:
How piston valves work
You should recognise that as basically an unbalanced spool valve

Valves are also used in combination; for example many of BTB's guns use hammer valves to pilot QEV's.


Combustion is epicly simple. Gaseous fuel in chamber, spark ignites fuel, increased temperature and number of molecules creates pressure, forcing the prokectile out of the barrel.

Hybrid is still easy. No different to a combustion, except you add extra fuel (referred to as X), then add 15 more psi for every extra charge of fuel, this, in conjunction with moar's law gives moar power.

If you want more help, give us a bell. However, we will not give plans for complete cannons.

By the way, a schrader valve is an automotive valve...you'll see at least four on every car
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Unread postAuthor: Moonbogg » Wed Jul 08, 2009 1:43 am

I know your not stupid. I apologize if I came off as abrasive. The cannon in my signature is an advanced combustion/Hybrid cannon. All that means is that is it built exactly like a regular combustion cannon but since its made of thin aluminum you can add a little extra fuel and some compressed air for the extra oxygen that addition fuel requires to combust. I will if you click on the cannon in my signature it will take you to a showcase post where there are pics of the build process. There is also a diagram drawing showing the whole thing cut in half. I will also include an image of a newer drawing of it here as well. It shows all of the internal workings.
The ball valve on the end of the chamber is closed during firing, and then opened afterwards. It allows the chamber fan to suck fresh air in to vent the chamber of spent gasses. fresh MAPP gas or propane is then injected and a burst disc (disc of plastic or aluminum foil) is clamped in the cam lock breech. This allows me to add extra fuel and compressed air to the chamber without it leaking out. When I shoot the gun, the burst disc breaks and allows the gas to shoot out the potato. The burst disc also allows a little bit of pressure build up in the chamber so when it breaks open, its like uncorking a bottle of champagne with pressure already inside of it. it sends the spud out faster this way.
The spark strip is simply a piece of metal that runs along the length of the chamber and has 2 gaps in it, allowing the current from the stun gun ignitor to jump across the gaps and light the gas. Spark strips and chamber fans are considered hop ups and are basically what makes a combustion into an "advanced" combustion vs the basic hair spray type of cannon which only has a single spark from a BBQ lighter and no fan inside. The fan serves the purpose of not only venting the chamber, but also mixes the gas with the air well, creating a much better combustion than without one.
Usually advanced combustions have a propane or MAPP bottle mounted to the gun and the fuel metering pipe is attached as well. The metering pipe is filled to the proper PSI of gas and then sprayed into the chamber. the PSI needed in the meter pipe is dependant on the chamber volume of the cannon and the volume of the meter pipe itself. The goal is to deliver the correct percentage of gas to chamber volume required since propane gas and even mapp gas is pretty picky about working well under the correct air to fuel ratio required for an efficient and powerful combustion.
I decided to use a separate meter pipe rather than install the tank and meter pipe on the cannon itself. This is because the aluminum cannon was already heavy enough as it was, plus it keeps the construction looking cleaner and less bulky without the mounted directly on the cannon itself. My cannon loads in the breech (cam lock) rather than down the barrel as many spud guns do. The stun gun, stun gun battery, and fan batteries are mounted in the black box along with the switches to turn each of them on. The stun gun trigger wire was ran through the chamber and down into the back handle to a trigger switch to activate the stun gun. High voltage devices such as stun guns are preferable for multiple spark gaps, especially in low mix hybrids because the extra thick gas and air creates more resistance for the electrical gap to overcome.

click to enlarge
this is a good drawing showing how combustion and hybrids can work

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Unread postAuthor: Gippeto » Wed Jul 08, 2009 1:43 am

As Moonbog has alluded, if you ask a generic question, you WILL get a generic response.

Printed plans are few and far between on this site. Guidelines and know how are everywhere. (ie. Using pressure rated components, and how to identify them.)

You mentioned a hybrid, it has already been explained briefly.

A schrader valve is a "tire" valve.

Did you look over the links that I posted?

A minor point,...Treating someones hobby with derision, is not the best way to elicit help.

Think about how you would react if I were to come to your forum, and deride you for "dressing up, running around in the bush, and playing with over priced toys". I rather doubt that would leave a favorable impression. :roll:



Perhaps we could start over??

You came here for a reason. What are you hoping to accomplish?


Edit: Bloody hell...I type slow. :lol:
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Unread postAuthor: feathers » Wed Jul 08, 2009 1:52 am

ok thanks thats the kind of stuff i was looking for basically ive built about four very basic combustion cannons using 4 inch pvc for the chamber, and 2 inch for the barrel i built so many experimenting with the sizes my current one is relativly small and i use axe body spray since it is mostly butane and alcohol and a grill starter that has about 2 feet of wire going to the back screw on cap. right now i am working on an electropnuematic using a water master sprinkler valve which i am still trying to figure out how to modify other than drilling the hole on the output valve. my goal is to copy the B.E.C.C. that i saw on a paintball site, but without the breech load, so i guess its an ecc. i am making it law style so it is over under with a volume chamber on bottom i am using a palmers stablizer paintball reg to get the pressure of co2, since it can spike up to 3000psi, down to the 120 range. i came here cause i saw an add and figured i could use the site for a little help, but started seeing these cool mini cannons and stuff like that i didnt know every one was so testy about giving out plans, but maybe i wasnt specific enough all i wanted know is how do the valves work on the smaller cannons cause i know they are not electropnuematic like mine so sorry for stepping on some toes im not a retard (and i know how annoying it is i am a mod) i just wanted to know how stuff works maybe for future builds
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Unread postAuthor: feathers » Wed Jul 08, 2009 1:58 am

Gippeto wrote:As Moonbog has alluded, if you ask a generic question, you WILL get a generic response.

Printed plans are few and far between on this site. Guidelines and know how are everywhere. (ie. Using pressure rated components, and how to identify them.)

You mentioned a hybrid, it has already been explained briefly.

A schrader valve is a "tire" valve.

Did you look over the links that I posted?

A minor point,...Treating someones hobby with derision, is not the best way to elicit help.

Think about how you would react if I were to come to your forum, and deride you for "dressing up, running around in the bush, and playing with over priced toys". I rather doubt that would leave a favorable impression. :roll:



Perhaps we could start over??

You came here for a reason. What are you hoping to accomplish?


Edit: Bloody hell...I type slow. :lol:


alright cool yeah it just pissed me off being degraded and called stupid or lazy cause i didnt use a search button i read 2 hours on this site before i even registered more specifically how do most people attatch the pump to their mini cannons is that where the schrader valve comes in
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Unread postAuthor: Moonbogg » Wed Jul 08, 2009 1:59 am

Well...pneumatics are usually only attempted by weirdos. Stick to the real thing, like hybrids. :lol:

(can't wait to get flamed for that one)
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Unread postAuthor: inonickname » Wed Jul 08, 2009 2:00 am

feathers wrote: bottom i am using a palmers stablizer paintball reg to get the pressure of co2, since it can spike up to 3000psi, down to the 120 range.


You call yourself a paintballer, and you don't even understand CO2 vapor pressure? Please explain..

You might get 3000 psi out of a CO2 bottle...if you put it in your oven..
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Unread postAuthor: feathers » Wed Jul 08, 2009 2:01 am

haha well im hopefully going to shoot nerf footballs or groupings of paintballs out thats why im not using my combustion that i used for potatoes and btw i found boiled corn on the cob cut in half shoots better than potatoes
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Unread postAuthor: feathers » Wed Jul 08, 2009 2:04 am

i understand that the co2 in the bottle is 800 psi and when the gas is let out the liquid boils to fill the space but for the most part it stays around 800 psi, but i do know co2 tanks have a 3k burst disk and its not rare for them to burst out of no where, and hey i use a 200 dollar compressed air tank co2 would rip my guns to shreds its way too cold and unpredictable when the liquid gets into the gun it blows solenoids almost instantly and depending on the gun thats at least a 100$ fix
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