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Hopup System

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Hopup System

Unread postAuthor: Hubb » Wed Aug 05, 2009 7:26 am

As many of you know, I have put together a bit of information and called it Improving the Barrel (linked in sig). Recently, I updated the book and added information on hopups. I added my adjustable hopup system in the book. After looking over it, I felt that it needed it's own topic.

This hopup system is designed after a Apex barrel (for those of you familiar) and worked great when I had it placed on a paintball launcher. Unfortunately, I have since disassembled the piece. I am, however, currently building a launcher for golf balls and will be placing the system on this barrel. I will update this topic with photographs when this is complete. Until then, this is an exert from the book about the topic:

Improving the Barrel wrote:...Begin with a coupling the same size as the barrel. Remove the lip of the coupling so that the barrel will slide through it. Slide the coupling over the muzzle end of the barrel so that the coupling is flush with the end of the muzzle. Mark the opposite end of the barrel and remove the coupling (for reference, the measured length of the barrel muzzle to the mark should be the same as the length of the coupling). From here, measure from the mark towards the muzzle about 1/4 the way and place another mark.

Image

On the muzzle end, at the exact top, measure a small width and draw straight marks from these points to the 1/4 inch mark. The strip should be about 1/4 as wide as the diameter of the barrel. Slowly and carefully trim out the barrel around this strip. Be sure to make the cuts as straight as possible. When complete, rough the inside surface of the slit with sandpaper.

Image

Set the barrel aside and get the coupling. Decide which end will be the muzzle end and which is the back end. Now, obtain four short screws and a drill with a bit the same diameter as the screws. Drill one hole, as straight as possible just a little bit into the coupling at the muzzle end. Drill three holes through the back end of the coupling in the same manner. Work the screws into all of the holes to cut threads into them or use a tap. The coupling will now be called the hopup muzzle.

To install the hopup muzzle, just insert it onto the end of the barrel muzzle so that the muzzle end of the hopup and the barrel match. Rotate the hopup muzzle so that the screw hole lines up with the strip in the barrel. Install the back end screws and tighten them down to hold the hopup muzzle in place. Now, install the muzzle end screw. To adjust the hopup, tighten or loosen the muzzle screw.

Image

For the most part, backspin is going to be dependant on the velocity of the shot. The purpose of the adjustable hopup system is to allow the hopup to be adjusted to fit the velocity, providing the maximum amount of backspin. Adjust the hopup so that the Magnus Effect is present (trust me, you'll know) but no further. Adjusting the hopup beyond that which is needed will begin to affect accuracy and cause the projectile to lift upwards rather than travel straight as intended.

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Unread postAuthor: jmadden91 » Wed Aug 05, 2009 7:34 am

Looks like a great system. Quick question in regards to hop ups, where do they go along the barrel? The Rear or the Muzzle, or somewhere in between? Or does it not matter?
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Unread postAuthor: Hubb » Wed Aug 05, 2009 7:36 am

I have had the best luck with placing them at the muzzle end. I've placed them at he breech end before and it works, but just works a lot better at the other end.
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Unread postAuthor: jmadden91 » Wed Aug 05, 2009 7:39 am

Awesome thanks mate
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Unread postAuthor: Hubb » Wed Aug 05, 2009 7:48 am

As mentioned above, this came straight out the book. There is also the o-ring method, which is much easier to put together, but not adjustable.

There is one more type of adjustable hopup system that I've seen (here on Spudfiles). I didn't put it in the book because I have no experience with it, but when I do, I'll get it updated. Looked like it had good potential.
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Unread postAuthor: D_Hall » Wed Aug 05, 2009 8:40 am

Be advised that this is almost certainly a violation of the Tippmann Corp's patent.
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Unread postAuthor: Hubb » Wed Aug 05, 2009 8:46 am

Actually, it is similar to the Apex (which is not Tippmann) but not quite. You see, the apex is adjustable with a push button style and is completely removable from the barrel. This one, on the other hand, requires a permanent modification to the barrel in order for it to work. The Apex has several other features that this one don't.

Besides, as long as I don't market and sell them (which I don't plan on doing seeing as how I posted it like this) I don't have anything to worry about.
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Last edited by Hubb on Wed Aug 05, 2009 8:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread postAuthor: spudtyrrant » Wed Aug 05, 2009 8:48 am

D_Hall wrote:Be advised that this is almost certainly a violation of the Tippmann Corp's patent.
lol and every airsoft company and paintball
company out there but i'm sure he's not going to get sued :lol:
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Unread postAuthor: D_Hall » Wed Aug 05, 2009 9:55 am

Hubb wrote:Besides, as long as I don't market and sell them (which I don't plan on doing seeing as how I posted it like this) I don't have anything to worry about.

If by "I don't have anything to worry about" you mean "they probably won't come after me," that's a fair statement. If instead you mean, "it's not illegal as long as I don't try to make money on it" you're mistaken.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying to cease and decist(sp!). I just like people to be aware of what they're doing.
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Unread postAuthor: Hubb » Wed Aug 05, 2009 9:58 am

There is one more type of adjustable hopup system that I've seen (here on Spudfiles). I didn't put it in the book because I have no experience with it, but when I do, I'll get it updated. Looked like it had good potential.


Image
by Kash munni

and

Image
by JSR

I'd like to experiment with those and get them to work. Note in JSR's pic that it is up-side-down. That is because it is originally designed to be a detent, but flip it over and it should make a nice adjustable hopup.
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Unread postAuthor: jimmy101 » Wed Aug 05, 2009 2:15 pm

D_Hall wrote:
Hubb wrote:Besides, as long as I don't market and sell them (which I don't plan on doing seeing as how I posted it like this) I don't have anything to worry about.

If by "I don't have anything to worry about" you mean "they probably won't come after me," that's a fair statement. If instead you mean, "it's not illegal as long as I don't try to make money on it" you're mistaken.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying to cease and decist(sp!). I just like people to be aware of what they're doing.

Of course, Hubb could also claim his book as a "scholarly work" (which I would say is correct). That would exempt it from patent infringement considerations. Any patented device can be described by anyone who wants to without infringing the patent. You can go to the library and pick up a book called the PDR (Physicians Desk Reference) that contains descriptions on thousands of patented drugs. The publication of descriptions of those drugs is not a patent infringment.


Shifting gears....

Has anyone every taken JSR's ball detent and put it between the barrel and chamber of a cloud or vortex BBMG? Not to act as a hopup, but instead to hold the BB in the breach until the chamber pressure has built up enough to give decent pressure pushing the BB when it is actually transiting the barrel. IIRC, the effective pressure in most BBMGs is less than 20 PSI even when powered by a 120 PSI compressor. Hence the fairly wimpy muzzle velocity even with a 2 or 3 foot barrel. If the detent could hold the BB until the chamber pressure has risen to say 80 PSI then the muzzle velocity should go up by a factor of two or so.

When a BB is held by the detent the low air flow through the chamber/detent/barrel would inhibit the "chambering" of another BB. When the detent releases the "chambered" BB the high flow through the chamber/detent/barrel should cause the next BB to "chamber".

The ROF would probably drop, but I would prefer a lower ROF and higher muzzle energy.

EDIT: Hmmm, I bet that ball detent could be built into a 1/4" compression "T" (for use with 0.177 BBs and a 1/4" brakeline barrel).
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Unread postAuthor: Hubb » Wed Aug 05, 2009 2:28 pm

Didn't you make something using a compression tee a while back? It would work great for it. I forget.

As far as the ball detent idea goes, I pulled the image from a thread that was talking about just that. In fact, I do believe that is why JSR was wanting the design. Have no idea if it ever got built, though.
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Unread postAuthor: POLAND_SPUD » Wed Aug 05, 2009 3:29 pm

@jimmy101
Has anyone every taken JSR's ball detent and put it between the barrel and chamber of a cloud or vortex BBMG?
It's good that you mentioned it... I really think that this design has a great potential...
it's improves power and lowers air usage at teh same time.. plus, it's stupid simple

I haven't tested it yet but I am going to do so in the near future
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Last edited by POLAND_SPUD on Wed Aug 05, 2009 3:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread postAuthor: Hubb » Wed Aug 05, 2009 3:39 pm

POLAND_SPUD wrote:@jimmy101
Has anyone every taken JSR's ball detent and put it between the barrel and chamber of a cloud or vortex BBMG?
It's good that you mentioned it... I lreally think that this design has a great potential...
it's improves power and lowers air usage at teh same time.. plus, it's stupid simple

I haven't tested it yet but I am going to do so in the near future


Original topic discussing this very thing.....4 pages of topic
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Unread postAuthor: D_Hall » Wed Aug 05, 2009 4:07 pm

jimmy101 wrote:Of course, Hubb could also claim his book as a "scholarly work" (which I would say is correct). That would exempt it from patent infringement considerations. Any patented device can be described by anyone who wants to without infringing the patent.

True... Right up to the moment you actually build one.
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