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What the sherif said about my spud guns...

A place to ask general spud cannon related questions.
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What the sherif said about my spud guns...

Unread postAuthor: jhalek90 » Sun Sep 13, 2009 10:44 am

PLEASE NOTE< this applies to federal law... not state law, and is applicable to any one in any of the United States

I was tired of people telling me that my spud guns were illegal...
I had no idea what was considered illegal, and what wasn't, So i went into the serif's office, and spoke to the man myself.

Here is what he told me:

Any cannon that uses any type of explosive gas, propane is a good example, is illegal, and considered a firearm by The bureau of alcohol, tobacco, and firearms.

Cannons that use pressurized gases, weather they be air or C02 or anything NON-EXPLOSIVE is not considered a firearm.

Furthermore, any pneumatic cannon, can and will be considered a dangerous weapon if it determined that it is being used for anything other than recreation use on private property.

I then asked him about transporting my pneumatic cannons.

He told me that i can have them in a vehicle, and if i get pulled over, to inform the officer of what i am carrying, explain that it is pneumatic, non-explosive, and used solely for recreation, and i will have no problems.


In conclusion:

Combustion are always illegal. No exceptions.

Pneumatics are legal, so long as they are used for recreation only, on private property.


I hope this helps everyone make wise choices when building, shooting and transporting there cannons :)
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Re: What the sherif said about my spud guns...

Unread postAuthor: Ragnarok » Sun Sep 13, 2009 10:57 am

jhalek90 wrote:Combustion are always illegal. No exceptions.

I suggest you go back and tell your sheriff that he's wrong. The ATF themselves cleared combustion spudguns.

As a general rule, in the US, spudguns (of any type) are legal as long as they used responsibly and aren't involved in any criminal activity.
State, County or City law can of course overrule that.
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Unread postAuthor: Moonbogg » Sun Sep 13, 2009 11:31 am

If combustions are illegal because they are considered firearms, then why aren't firearms illegal? I think he didn't know and was just playing it safe with you.
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Unread postAuthor: D_Hall » Sun Sep 13, 2009 11:42 am

In addition, even if the ATF considered a combustion cannon to be a firearm, it would STILL be legal provided it was a muzzle loader.

Note that there are a lot of folks who enjoy shooting honest to God cannons as a hobby. The ATF has no issue with them provided they are primitive in design (ie, muzzle loaders).
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Last edited by D_Hall on Sun Sep 13, 2009 11:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread postAuthor: D_Hall » Sun Sep 13, 2009 11:45 am

Moonbogg wrote:If combustions are illegal because they are considered firearms, then why aren't firearms illegal? I think he didn't know and was just playing it safe with you.

At that point the question would become "Where's the serial number?" Guns in the US are required to have serial numbers and such. 'Tain't a big deal to deal with the ATF if you want to make one yourself... But you have to jump through hoops that no spudder is jumping through.

Regardless, they aren't modern firearms so it's irrelevant (serial numbers not required on primitive firearms).
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Unread postAuthor: jrrdw » Sun Sep 13, 2009 1:57 pm

Hahahaaa...haha...hahahaaa...ha! Ain't no 2 cops gonna tell it the same way, unless their sitting beside each other, or ordering donuts! :P
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Unread postAuthor: POLAND_SPUD » Sun Sep 13, 2009 2:27 pm

@jrrdw
lol... true
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Re: What the sherif said about my spud guns...

Unread postAuthor: jagerbond » Sun Sep 13, 2009 4:21 pm

jhalek90 wrote:PLEASE NOTE< this applies to federal law... not state law, and is applicable to any one in any of the United States

I was tired of people telling me that my spud guns were illegal...
I had no idea what was considered illegal, and what wasn't, So i went into the serif's office, and spoke to the man myself.

Here is what he told me:

Any cannon that uses any type of explosive gas, propane is a good example, is illegal, and considered a firearm by The bureau of alcohol, tobacco, and firearms.

Cannons that use pressurized gases, weather they be air or C02 or anything NON-EXPLOSIVE is not considered a firearm.

Furthermore, any pneumatic cannon, can and will be considered a dangerous weapon if it determined that it is being used for anything other than recreation use on private property.

I then asked him about transporting my pneumatic cannons.

He told me that i can have them in a vehicle, and if i get pulled over, to inform the officer of what i am carrying, explain that it is pneumatic, non-explosive, and used solely for recreation, and i will have no problems.


In conclusion:

Combustion are always illegal. No exceptions.

Pneumatics are legal, so long as they are used for recreation only, on private property.


I hope this helps everyone make wise choices when building, shooting and transporting there cannons :)


I talk to the ATF often to ensure what we do is legal. They have reviewed our products (all combustion) and given us the OK to market to the US.

Are you telling us that a Sheriff made a statement on behalf of the ATF?

PM me and I will give you the ATF phone number and you can talk to the duty technician to get your facts straight. Maybe you can get the ATF on the line while your talking to your sheriff.

Where are you located?
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Unread postAuthor: nibbler125 » Sun Sep 13, 2009 5:33 pm

i heard in some areas you cannot have a barrel more than a 2" bore but i cannot prove it beacuse i dont have a source
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Unread postAuthor: c11man » Sun Sep 13, 2009 5:59 pm

2inch bore? i would say that is not true but i havent done any reasch myself.

if it was true then im in some trouble, i have a 15ft long 3inch barrel :D
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Unread postAuthor: theBOOM » Sun Sep 13, 2009 6:03 pm

15 ft long? dam.....
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Unread postAuthor: c11man » Sun Sep 13, 2009 6:06 pm

theBOOM wrote:15 ft long? dam.....


even with a 20ft the projectile would be still accelerating! 8)
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Unread postAuthor: jhalek90 » Sun Sep 13, 2009 6:28 pm

Well, that is why i titled the post.. "What the sherif said...."

Not, "What the law is."

Just to let you know... an officer is not going to look at your gun, and ask you "Is it a muzzle loader?"

You might no be doing anything illegal, but if they think you are, you gunna have a lot of trouble and wasted time on your hands.

Not trying to tell you all what the law is.... just how an average cop sees it..

All im tryin to do, is save some good ole' spudders some trouble...

with that said.... BRING ON THE CANNONS!!!!

EDIT:
Ragnarok wrote:I suggest you go back and tell your sheriff that he's wrong. The ATF themselves cleared combustion spudguns.

As a general rule, in the US, spudguns (of any type) are legal as long as they used responsibly and aren't involved in any criminal activity.
State, County or City law can of course overrule that.


I believe that whole heatedly, i was just telling you all what my sherif said.

BTW I am in northern Michigan. Traverse City area.
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Unread postAuthor: cdheller » Mon Sep 14, 2009 8:58 pm

I'm not sure how to sure how to start this one out. :drunken:

while I understand most of the points made here (sheriff aside)


Maybe a basic assumption of what a firearm is is wrong.

Firearm according to nfa 34 (gca 68 same)
For the purpose of this chapter--
(a) Firearm. The term 'firearm' means
(1) a shotgun having a barrel or barrels of
less than 18 inches in length; (2) a
weapon made from a shotgun if such
weapon as modified has an overall length
of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels
of less than 18 inches in length; (3) a
rifle having a barrel or barrels of less than
16 inches in length; (4) a weapon made
from a rifle if such weapon as modified
has an overall length of less than 26
inches or a barrel or barrels of less than
16 inches in length; (5) any other weapon,
as defined in subsection (e); (6) a machinegun;
(7) any silencer (as defined in
section 921 of title 18, United States
Code); and (8) a destructive device. The
term 'firearm' shall not include an antique
firearm or any device (other than a machinegun
or destructive device) which,
although designed as a weapon, the Secretary
finds by reason of the date of its
manufacture, value, design, and other
characteristics is primarily a collector's
item and is not likely to be used as a
weapon.


:shock:

not the same thing as a rifle or shotgun

(c) Rifle. The term 'rifle' means a
weapon designed or redesigned, made or
remade, and intended to be fired from the
shoulder and designed or redesigned and
made or remade to use the energy of the
explosive in a fixed cartridge to fire only a
single projectile through a rifled bore for
each single pull of the trigger, and shall
include any such weapon which may be
readily restored to fire a fixed cartridge.
(d) Shotgun. The term 'shotgun'
means a weapon designed or redesigned,
made or remade, and intended to be fired
from the shoulder and designed or redesigned
and made or remade to use the
energy of the explosive in a fixed shotgun
shell to fire through a smooth bore either
a number of projectiles (ball shot) or a
single projectile for each pull of the trigger,
and shall include any such weapon
which may be readily restored to fire a
fixed shotgun shell.

:shock:

At the start of laws there is a section of definitions ,most of the time covering what its about.

nfa(34) is here
http://www.atf.gov/pub/fire-explo_pub/2 ... chap53.pdf

for what it's worth
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Unread postAuthor: Moonbogg » Mon Sep 14, 2009 9:25 pm

I duno, I just can't see anyone having issues while toting a cannon and a sack of potatoes.
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