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Airsoft Damage Challenge

A place to ask general spud cannon related questions.
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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Sun Nov 29, 2009 6:12 pm

hi wrote:Dimes are so thin that even if you shot it with a 30.06, you would just bend it. I dont have factual information, but thats my guess.

You would have to have something that supported all around it, basically a custom vise that is made specifically for holding a dime. if you did that, then yes, i would bet you could do it. other wise, my guess is you are just going to bend it and have some really nice dings, but no penetration.


Are we forgetting the spudfiles coin challenge?

Image

With the right projectile, you don't need a lot of energy to punch through a coin. In this case however, an airsoft BB is pretty much on the opposite end of the ideal projectile spectrum, so it needs to be travelling at ridiculous velocities in order to punch through. I've put an 0.25g BB through both sides of a lighter fluid can but I think a coin is a bit of a stretch below several times the speed of sound.
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Unread postAuthor: rp181 » Sun Nov 29, 2009 6:14 pm

lets not forget its illegal too :)
not that anyone cares...
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Unread postAuthor: sgort87 » Sun Nov 29, 2009 7:05 pm

rp181 wrote:lets not forget its illegal too :)
not that anyone cares...


Where's that flamethrower video of me setting the earth on fire...
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Unread postAuthor: DYI » Sun Nov 29, 2009 7:10 pm

lets not forget its illegal too Smile
not that anyone cares...


It is not illegal. This is not fraudulent defacement, just the regular kind. Take a look on Bert Hickman's site for the legal issues surrounding damaging coins.

Putting some arbitrarily thin, hardened steel penetrator through a coin which isn't made of 1/2" AR400 steel is hardly a challenge. Putting an airsoft round through a coin? THAT is worthy of recognition.

That said, remember that this is more to see who can make the biggest dent. I doubt that any "legitimate" spudgun (short of HyGaC20 on oxy/hydrogen) could actually fire a 6mm plastic sphere through a coin, and most amateur ETGs are too anemic (short of Larda's ETG; hey, anyone else see a pattern here? :lol: ).
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Unread postAuthor: SpudBlaster15 » Sun Nov 29, 2009 8:56 pm

Hey, at least mine will sort of 'look' like a legitimate spudgun. :D That is until it fires, and recoils 20ft back into a wall, as today's testing has shown is somewhat of an issue. :lol:
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Re: Airsoft Damage Challenge

Unread postAuthor: Technician1002 » Sun Nov 29, 2009 9:04 pm

Ragnarok wrote:
DYI wrote:Predictably, it didn't go through.

Well then, it clearly wasn't going fast enough.

(Actually, I think the problem is more lack of mass and excess of velocity. Heavier BBs would likely help)


E = Mass X Velocity squared.

I'll take double the speed over double the mass. :D

Paint chip impacts in space are devastating at orbital speeds.
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Unread postAuthor: Solar » Sun Nov 29, 2009 9:07 pm

You mean you weren't just having a buddy hold the dime between his fingers for you to shoot?

Seriously though, good job! What is the size of the launcher? I do not get the scale in the pictures with the dark bg. Is it the same gun in the outdoor pictures?
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Unread postAuthor: DYI » Sun Nov 29, 2009 9:30 pm

Seriously though, good job! What is the size of the launcher? I do not get the scale in the pictures with the dark bg. Is it the same gun in the outdoor pictures?


The ETG has never seen the light of day. It has a maximum diameter of 1.25", a barrel length of 10", and an overall length of about 15" (although the chamber is only 1/4" long). I'll leave it to you to figure out the chamber pressure that would require :wink:

I'll take double the speed over double the mass.


Obviously, yes. However, I believe what Rag was implying is that for a given energy, a denser, slower round would probably be superior to this one.
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Unread postAuthor: rp181 » Sun Nov 29, 2009 9:38 pm

double the speed is 4 times the energy. a heavier projectile has less loss.
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Re: Airsoft Damage Challenge

Unread postAuthor: SpudBlaster15 » Sun Nov 29, 2009 11:22 pm

Technician1002 wrote:
Ragnarok wrote:
DYI wrote:Predictably, it didn't go through.

Well then, it clearly wasn't going fast enough.

(Actually, I think the problem is more lack of mass and excess of velocity. Heavier BBs would likely help)


E = Mass X Velocity squared.

I'll take double the speed over double the mass. :D

Paint chip impacts in space are devastating at orbital speeds.


I suspect that it's not that simple, since with a projectile that doesn't neatly slice through its target, there's also momentum to consider, and momentum scales linearly with both velocity and mass. With such a soft projectile with low sectional density, the coin is going to spend a significant amount of time deforming, all the while exerting a reactionary force on the projectile. Since the change in momentum is equal to applied force multiplied by time, a lighter round with the same energy is going to lose all of its forward momentum more easily.

This is ignoring sectional density, which also plays a significant role in penetration and will obviously change favorably with the heavier BB.
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Re: Airsoft Damage Challenge

Unread postAuthor: Ragnarok » Mon Nov 30, 2009 7:03 am

Technician1002 wrote:E = Mass X Velocity squared.

As I know.

I'll take double the speed over double the mass.

But that's not what we're talking about. In this case, the muzzle energy is going to be somewhat constant across a range of projectile masses.

Be it a 0.12g, a 0.20g, or a 0.25g, all will have around 100 Joules of energy.

The only thing we can really choose here is in what proportions that 100 Joules is mass, and how much is velocity. And my guess is that changing the balance towards mass would help here.

Indeed, messing with a regular airsoft gun and drinks cans shows that even though different pellet masses have similar energies, the lightweight ones have notably less penetrative power.
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Unread postAuthor: kenbo0422 » Mon Nov 30, 2009 7:26 am

Its called inertia. Stopping a feather is easier than stopping a truck.
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Unread postAuthor: psycix » Mon Nov 30, 2009 7:30 am

A slower projectile with more mass, but with the same kinetic energy has more momentum.
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Re: Airsoft Damage Challenge

Unread postAuthor: CasinoVanart » Mon Nov 30, 2009 7:30 am

Ragnarok wrote:
Technician1002 wrote:E = Mass X Velocity squared.

As I know.

I'll take double the speed over double the mass.

But that's not what we're talking about. In this case, the muzzle energy is going to be somewhat constant across a range of projectile masses.

Be it a 0.12g, a 0.20g, or a 0.25g, all will have around 100 Joules of energy.

The only thing we can really choose here is in what proportions that 100 Joules is mass, and how much is velocity. And my guess is that changing the balance towards mass would help here.

Indeed, messing with a regular airsoft gun and drinks cans shows that even though different pellet masses have similar energies, the lightweight ones have notably less penetrative power.


Get a job Rag, seriously.
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Unread postAuthor: Ragnarok » Mon Nov 30, 2009 8:16 am

kenbo0422 wrote:Stopping a feather is easier than stopping a truck.

Quite frankly, I'd rather deal with a 10 tonne truck doing 30 miles a hour than a one gram feather doing ninety five thousand miles an hour - but that's mostly because the feather is doing around Mach 125*.

Still, the energies involved are pretty similar.

*Which sounds like it's trying to be a name for some product that the marketing department wants to try and sell to men who think they're butch and manly. "Buy Mach One-Two-Five, now with 400% more testosterone!"

It's called inertia.

You can say inertia - or you can say mass. Inertia is little more than a way of saying "more mass accelerates less under the same force".

And before we fall into the old trap: Inertia and momentum, although used in common speech to mean the same thing, are separate concepts.
Numerically, inertia is simply an object's mass. Momentum is the product of an object's mass and velocity.
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