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A grain of truth

A place to ask general spud cannon related questions.
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Unread postAuthor: boyntonstu » Tue Apr 20, 2010 3:31 pm

Ragnarok wrote:
boyntonstu wrote: That way you'll be using the same unit system as 95%* of the world. Frankly, I'm surprised it's taken you this long to see the light.


What? Convert to Islam because 1.200,000,000 folks do?

Neither the length of time something is used or the number of people that use it, makes it a better system.

Do you see the light?

How many people know the meaning of "Spudguns"?
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Unread postAuthor: jimmy101 » Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:25 pm

Technician1002 wrote:Things like the roads and maps are still in the obsolete format due to government laziness. This should have converted in the 1970's.

The Gas shortage in the late 1970's and the stations trying to use customer confusion to sell gas at higher prices led to a big rejection of selling gas by the Liter.

Gas was cheaper by the gallon and consumers soon figured out the scam. The 33 cent gas was more expensive than the 70 cent gas. They never recovered. Metric gas simply was a rip off and the comparisons stopped and those selling it converted back or died.

Having lived through both those events I can say you've got them wrong.

The US gov't tried to convert mileage etc to metric in the 70's and 80's. The huge public backlash forced the gov't to abandon the effort. It had nothing to do with lazyness of the gov't and everything to do with politicians getting reelected and the laziness of the public.

The gas stations did not try to rip people off when the converted, briefly, to liters. The converted for one reason only, the pump displays could not do prices above 99.9 cents per unit volume. When gas exceeded that per gallon the stations were forced to flip the switch inside the pump that converted to measuring in liters. That reduced the price per unit volume back under the $0.999 limit of the mechanical displays. People nearly instantly figured out how to compare prices in Liters and never really had to convert from liter to gallon.
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Unread postAuthor: MrCrowley » Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:26 pm

What? Convert to Islam because 1.200,000,000 folks do?

Don't be crazy, there are two billion Christians :D
By the way, stop double posting or i'll delete the second post.

I had to re-build an 1880's window in Tech class last year and we were forced to use inches (since the plans were in inches), it really wasn't hard to grasp the measurement after awhile. Thanks to this hobby as well I can visualise most imperial measurements, pounds, inches, feet, yards, gallons and ounces.

When I was in America and saw a gallon bottle of whatever, I didn't freak out. When you're driving and see a 35mph sign, you don't try and convert it to kmh. It wouldn't be hard swapping to metric (just expensive), eventually you pick up that 110kmh is highway speed (depends), 100kmh is motorway speed, 50kmh is suburban speed etc. A carton of milk is 1 litre and a plastic bottle is 2 litres. A chocolate bar (snickers for example) is about 55grams.

As for grains, you're free to use the measurement. You've demonstrated two reasons to use grains; so handloaders can identify with it and because it is more precise, but for this hobby, it is mostly pointless. Anything built in the garage is rarely measured on anything more precise than a ruler. Why use Pascals to measure pressure when PSI or Bar will do?
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Unread postAuthor: boyntonstu » Tue Apr 20, 2010 5:20 pm

[quote="MrCrowley"Why use Pascals to measure pressure when PSI or Bar will do?[/quote]

[In 1985, IUPAC recommended that standard atmospheric pressure should be harmonized to 100,000 Pa = 1 bar = 750 Torr. The same definition is used in the compressor and the pneumatic tool industries (ISO 2787).]

Are we using compressors?

Are we using a pneumatic tool?

Are we trying to go Metric?

Do we wish to live in harmony?

Let's give Blaise Pascal the honor he deserves, like we honor Watt, Newton, etc.
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Unread postAuthor: Ragnarok » Tue Apr 20, 2010 5:24 pm

boyntonstu wrote:"0 to 965.60kilometer/hour in 10 milliseconds"

Oh, bloody hell. As if my numbers weren't obviously rounded in the first place.

1000 km/hr is actually a closer approximation to the velocity than 600 mph.

A billion in England is 10^12, in the US it is 10^9.

No, I've already talked about this. The UK no longer uses the long scale. For the last however many years, the short scale has been the accepted norm in the UK.

Some places do use the long scale, but the easy solution to avoid confusion when it's important is to make sure the number is set out numerically. There's no ambiguity about what 123,456,789,000 or 2.24 x 10<sup>15</sup> means. (Unless someone's a numpty who can't read scientific notation.)

Neither the length of time something is used or the number of people that use it, makes it a better system.

It's overtaken just about every measurement system in the world, and holds a 95% majority. It's very safe to say that when over 6 billion people have adopted it as their primary form of measurement, it's the best system available today.
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Unread postAuthor: boyntonstu » Tue Apr 20, 2010 5:39 pm

[ It's very safe to say that when over 6 billion people have adopted it as their primary form of measurement, it's the best system available today.]

Christianity 2.1 billion
Islam 1.5 billion
Irreligious/agnostic/atheism 1.1 billion
Hinduism 900 million
Chinese traditional religion 394 million
Buddhism 376 million

Christianity is the best religion today, correct?

And Atheism is better than Hinduism.

BTW Buddhism is Atheistic and therefore if we add 376 million Buddhist Atheists to 1.1 billion, it would make I/A/A the 3rd largest "religion" and almost as good as Islam.

"Although Buddhism has a vast number of scriptures and practices, the fundamental core of Buddhism, the Four Noble Truths and the Noble Eightfold Path do not have any mention of any god(s) or any notion of worship of any deity."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nontheism#Buddhism

If 99% of people never heard of grains, it would still be used by those who prefer it.

I would use 99% Metric and continue using grains for projectiles under 1,000 grains.
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Unread postAuthor: MrCrowley » Tue Apr 20, 2010 5:49 pm

Let's give Blaise Pascal the honor he deserves, like we honor Watt, Newton, etc.

Perhaps you misunderstood me. Why say 689,475.729 pascals instead of 689 Kpa? Or even 0.7 Bar?

There's no need to be so precise.

Christianity 2.1 billion
Islam 1.5 billion
Irreligious/agnostic/atheism 1.1 billion
Hinduism 900 million
Chinese traditional religion 394 million
Buddhism 376 million

Christianity is the best religion today, correct?

Let's refrain from religious examples. By the way, are you familiar with democracy? Generally that works on majority... :roll:

And Atheism is better than Hinduism.

BTW Buddhism is Atheistic and therefore if we add 376 million Buddhist Atheists to 1.1 billion, it would make I/A/A the 3rd largest "religion" and almost as good as Islam
.

Atheism isn't a religion. It is a lack of belief.

If 99% of people never heard of grains, it would still be used by those who prefer it.

I would use 99% Metric and continue using grains for projectiles under 1,000 grains.

Answer me this:

Why do you need to be so precise with your measurement of your projectiles or pistons?

Why use a measurement that most of the forum is not familiar with?

If your scales are in grains, sure use grains. Though, don't tell us grains is better than grams for these uses, clearly you have failed to prove that.
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Unread postAuthor: Hawkeye » Tue Apr 20, 2010 5:55 pm

There is something to be said for the following measurements; a lot, about this big, too much, a pinch, a dash, as far as the eye can see... etc.
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Unread postAuthor: boyntonstu » Tue Apr 20, 2010 6:03 pm

Hawkeye wrote:There is something to be said for the following measurements; a lot, about this big, too much, a pinch, a dash, as far as the eye can see... etc.


Sure, I measure it with my micrometer, mark it with chalk, and cut it with an axe.
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Unread postAuthor: boyntonstu » Tue Apr 20, 2010 6:21 pm

By the way, are you familiar with democracy? Generally that works on majority... :roll:

Democracy: 50 people take a vote. 26 to kill you. You die.
Pure democracy. Like it?


Atheism isn't a religion. It is a lack of belief.

What is Buddhism?


Answer me this:

Why do you need to be so precise with your measurement of your projectiles or pistons?

Why use a measurement that most of the forum is not familiar with?

If your scales are in grains, sure use grains. Though, don't tell us grains is better than grams for these uses, clearly you have failed to prove that.

I use grains as do all firearm, archery, and fencing manufacturers and their customers in this country. I am not attempting to convince anyone what unit to use.

That said: http://www.glbarnes.com/field_justice.html is one of the best if not the best air rifle builder in the U.S.

"That's Tom ... my buddy I told you about with the heart surgery. He's feeling well enough to hike over to see where the 905 grain slugs went."

If measuring with grains is good enough for Gary Barnes, I am not ashamed to use it.

BTW Flat edge solid cylindrical projectiles front and rear. Look at the accuracy at 25 yards.
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Unread postAuthor: POLAND_SPUD » Tue Apr 20, 2010 6:28 pm

lol you know what? being special isn't always a good thing... :D
I guess this thread is a bit pointless


I think I might as well start measuring muzzle speed in height of vodka bottles per the time needed for me to get totally f#### ## after drinking 0.5L bottle of Zubrowka in under 2 minutes
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Unread postAuthor: MrCrowley » Tue Apr 20, 2010 6:39 pm

What is Buddhism?

A religion.

By the way, are you familiar with democracy? Generally that works on majority...

Democracy: 50 people take a vote. 26 to kill you. You die.
Pure democracy. Like it?

You need 12 jurors to convict a man :wink:

I use grains as do all firearm, archery, and fencing manufacturers and their customers in this country. I am not attempting to convince anyone what unit to use.

That said: http://www.glbarnes.com/field_justice.html is one of the best if not the best air rifle builder in the U.S.

"That's Tom ... my buddy I told you about with the heart surgery. He's feeling well enough to hike over to see where the 905 grain slugs went."

If measuring with grains is good enough for Gary Barnes, I am not ashamed to use it.

BTW Flat edge solid cylindrical projectiles front and rear. Look at the accuracy at 25 yards

Cool paragraph. Surprisingly (not really), you managed to dodge both my questions.

Why use such a precise measurement when it is really not required and is unfamiliar with most on the forum?

@POLAND,
:D

I measure velocity in a formula which finds the average speed of my projectile vomit compared to the alcohol content and volume I have consumed, taking in to account the amount of food consumed within 24 hours of the projectile vomit :P

300FPS now becomes 16SSV. SSV means Standard Speed of Vomit. The Standard being 40% alcohol percent to a one litre of alcohol consumed and 1 kilogram of food consumed in the prior 24 hours.
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Unread postAuthor: boyntonstu » Tue Apr 20, 2010 6:44 pm

MrCrowley wrote:
What is Buddhism?

A religion.

What do Buddhists believe in?

By the way, are you familiar with democracy? Generally that works on majority...

Democracy: 50 people take a vote. 26 to kill you. You die.
Pure democracy. Like it?

You need 12 jurors to convict a man :wink:

And if 7 voted to kill the other 5, that is democracy.
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Unread postAuthor: POLAND_SPUD » Tue Apr 20, 2010 6:55 pm

@MrCrowley
do it like a real pro... yeah that was 0.5 L of vodka in under 10 seconds
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLbYRWou-f0&feature=related[/youtube]
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Unread postAuthor: Technician1002 » Tue Apr 20, 2010 7:05 pm

jimmy101 wrote:
Having lived through both those events I can say you've got them wrong.

The US gov't tried to convert mileage etc to metric in the 70's and 80's. The huge public backlash forced the gov't to abandon the effort. It had nothing to do with lazyness of the gov't and everything to do with politicians getting reelected and the laziness of the public.

The gas stations did not try to rip people off when the converted, briefly, to liters. The converted for one reason only, the pump displays could not do prices above 99.9 cents per unit volume.


I also lived through the events. It is true there was huge public resistance to the conversion to Kilometers. I agree on that point. On the second point, I about fell out of my chair.. WTF?? It is true that many pumps would display the 2 digits plus .9. Many of those were mechanical and could not be converted to metric. Most of the stations converting got new pumps. I remember the shiny new pumps. Many of them also displayed XX.9, but because many vehicles would now hold over 99 liters (RV's) the pumps were limited to the amount they could dispense. The places limiting sales due to the limited number of digits on the pump were fairly few. Most metric pumps were electronic with digital displays. The resistance was mostly the public perception that anything over $1.00/gallon was price gouging. 33 cents/Liter was considered a rip-off.

Government stepped in and capped gas prices in many places. This led to refiners halting production, limits ot odd/even license plate gas purchases, limits on purchases, the 3 flags, Red - Sold out, Yellow, emergency services only, and green, we have gas. This shortage was artificial. Fuel storage farms were filmed in IR in the sun to see how low they were (fuel cooled the heated metal in the sun so the temperature can be read) and the truth became known, the tanks were full to the top. When the cap was lifted, suddenly there was plenty of gas. It was easy to blame the oil embargo, but hording by the distributors spiked the price to very profitable levels. The amounts in the storage tanks could not be hidden from IR photography.

I remember driving across Eastern Oregon through several small towns, of No Gas, No Gas, No Gas and finally parked in a small ghost town at the only station for the night to wait for the fuel truck in the morning. I lived price controls. I know the result first hand.

Pulling into a gas station and being limited to only meant sitting in one line, then again at the next station, and again at the next. This is the result.
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This is what scares me with health care reform to control costs. Treatment options are going to go away just like gas did in the 1970's. MRI, Open Heart Surgery, Kidney Transplants, etc will become rare.

Take two aspirin for the pain and call me in the morning will become standard as the people in line for services back up blocks long.

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