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spudgun range, are we falling short?

A place to ask general spud cannon related questions.
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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Fri Apr 15, 2011 9:02 am

Lockednloaded wrote:Hardly cheating if you are still using spudgun koescher propulsion


I'm not saying it wouldn't be a valid project, but the idea of this thread was to promote the idea that by simply shaping and weighting a projectile in an ideal manner, one could achieve range far beyond what we are currently seeing.
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Unread postAuthor: POLAND_SPUD » Fri Apr 15, 2011 9:41 am

@JSR
Agreed

The problem, at least form my perspective, is that we need cheap and expendable ammo
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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Fri Apr 15, 2011 9:53 am

POLAND_SPUD wrote:The problem, at least from my perspective, is that we need cheap and expendable ammo


I think another issue is that the "challenge" isn't well framed. We seem to be stuck on recovery methods due to the predicted ranges of 1-2km plus, using a high performance launcher.

What would make it more accessible is to try and do this with an average launcher, say a relatively small combustion (not spray'n'pray though, in order to achieve more consistency) with a golf ball barrel.

Say this launcher could throw a potato 100 yards and a golf ball 200 yards. If you could get 500 yards with an "ideal" projectile, that would still be a pretty amazing feat and finding the projectile would not be as big a chore.

Not that those with high performance launchers should hold back from launching darts into the next county either ;) I'm just saying that getting a relative increase in range is still something worth *cough* aiming for :)
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Unread postAuthor: mark.f » Fri Apr 15, 2011 10:01 am

jackssmirkingrevenge wrote:What would make it more accessible is to try and do this with an average launcher, say a relatively small combustion (not spray'n'pray though, in order to achieve more consistency) with a golf ball barrel.

Say this launcher could throw a potato 100 yards and a golf ball 200 yards.


I think that's a tad conservative. :P Spudmonster was able to get about 300 yards with a potato out of his (somewhat large) combustion, and I have launched golfballs far in excess of 200 yards with mine, although how far in excess that is is completely questionable (the field was 200 yards, the golfballs went over the treeline on the other side).

I think an advanced combustion with a low CD dart would still be quite as unmanageable as higher performance pneumatics or hybrids. It's just a question of walking several hundred yards versus a mile or so. :roll:

EDIT: just read the "relative small" combustion bit. Sorry for the vehement defense of combustion launchers. :P
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Unread postAuthor: LeMaudit » Fri Apr 15, 2011 10:11 am

if you all want a "real" challenge instead of a shiny experiment ;-), I think the simple rule should be to provide a fixed weight (say, 100gr+-10%, maybe lighter to limit the range to something easier to retrieve), and try to launch the projective as far as one can (hybrid, compressed air. sabot, whatever). This would only take into account the aerodynamic of it, and would involve creative thinking in building a large projective, a sabot, whatever.

It could also be a multi-entry contest.

- 10 grams += 10%
- 50 grams +-10%
- 100 grams +-10%
- 200 grams +-10%
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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Fri Apr 15, 2011 10:13 am

mark.f wrote:EDIT: just read the "relatively small" combustion bit. Sorry for the vehement defense of combustion launchers. :P


That's why I specified a smaller size, because I know that an advanced combustion of generous proportions can be quite a powerhouse.

I'm confident that a 3-4" bore combustion with a decent barrel and chamber, mixing fan, powerful ignition etc could probably throw the same saboted projectile just as far as a 1" 10x hybrid.
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Unread postAuthor: mark.f » Fri Apr 15, 2011 10:18 am

jackssmirkingrevenge wrote:I'm confident that a 3-4" bore combustion with a decent barrel and chamber, mixing fan, powerful ignition etc could probably throw the same saboted projectile just as far as a 1" 10x hybrid.


Is this a suggestion?

What about 6" bore? :P Got 9' of 6" pressure rated pipe sitting right here (well, not right here, under the house).
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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Fri Apr 15, 2011 10:25 am

mark.f wrote:What about 6" bore? :P Got 9' of 6" pressure rated pipe sitting right here (well, not right here, under the house).


If you could make a sabot strong enough to house the projectile yet light enough to allow high velocity, why not?

It could also be a multi-entry contest.


In an ideal world, we'd all get together behind a firing line with tens of kilometres of flat dry salt lake ahead of us, ah what a day that would be :) but again, the difficulty of verifying distance claims makes a feasible contest unlikely.
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Unread postAuthor: POLAND_SPUD » Fri Apr 15, 2011 10:57 am

If you could get 500 yards with an "ideal" projectile
you don't need an "ideal" projectile to get long range

high density and stability in flight alone are enough
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Unread postAuthor: dewey-1 » Fri Apr 15, 2011 11:01 am

What about the comparison of a spherical projectile verses an aerodynamic projectile of the same caliber and weight for any type launcher.

Example: A golfball with 3 launches to get an average measured distance.
An aerodynamic fin stabilized like Miniboy such that its weight and caliber are the same as a golball doing 3 launches as well.

edit: Both have to have equally weighted sabot to have a fair comparison.

This should give an idea as to the benifits of aerodynamic projectile.
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Last edited by dewey-1 on Fri Apr 15, 2011 12:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Unread postAuthor: LeMaudit » Fri Apr 15, 2011 11:10 am

I think the benefits are obvious, or you would not have ballistic science at all :D

But measuring how much we can improve by doing so would be quite interesting. But I guess JSR is right, it's not that easy to both participate in such an experience and measure accurately such a thing. Particularly if it's so difficult to find the projectile after shoot. And thinking of myself, particularly because I have no gun (yet) :lol:

We'll see if MiniBoy become a lost artifact for the puzzlement of future generation of archeologists :D
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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Fri Apr 15, 2011 11:55 am

LeMaudit wrote:We'll see if MiniBoy become a lost artifact for the puzzlement of future generation of archeologists :D


Well, you know the disc on Voyager...

...

Just sayin' ;)
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Unread postAuthor: LeMaudit » Fri Apr 15, 2011 1:22 pm

... and I remember the mess it made from Star Trek motion picture :lol:
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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Sat Apr 16, 2011 8:34 am

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Unread postAuthor: LeMaudit » Sat Apr 16, 2011 8:44 am

There! See!? :D

Shiny metal for the ammo and the sabot!

Shiny metal lovers, unite!!

( I love the shape of this ammo... Mk.II, here I come! :lol: )


[edit] interestingly, the fin edges don't seem to have a profiled shape.
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