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The Offcial Machinist Thread: Revised 01/04/2014

A place to ask general spud cannon related questions.
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Unread postAuthor: wyz2285 » Sun Sep 29, 2013 8:33 am

I know hydro=water :P but I thought oil are use instead of water now.
A grease gun? You mean putting the pump inside the gun? I think I prefer build myself something nicer than that :) I googled manual hydro testing pump, the design looks simple.
BTW will this work for slow rust bluing? I know the process by detail but I don't know what "bluing solution" to use.
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CpTn_lAw wrote::D "yay, me wanna make big multishot pnoob with 1000 psi foot pump compressor using diamond as main material. Do you think wet bread make good sealant? " :D
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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Sun Sep 29, 2013 10:36 am

Most solutions seem to be a mixture of sodium hydroxide and potassium nitrate in water, the latter might be difficult to obtain due to its more energetic applications...
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Unread postAuthor: wyz2285 » Sun Sep 29, 2013 11:58 am

I have no problem in getting potassium nitrate :D
However in the tutorial sodium hydroxide is used to clean the barrel, supposedly I need to boil the barrel in it, afterwards a "bluing solution" is used...
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Unread postAuthor: Gippeto » Mon Sep 30, 2013 1:14 am

Solution you linked to is cold blue...will color steel, but stinks and rubs off fairly easily...offers ZERO protection from rusting. Typically contain selenium, copper and a dilute nitric acid (VERY nasty stuff at strength!)

I posted a solution for slow rust bluing that works on most steels I've tried it on...you're very likely to find all the ingredients within the four walls of your house.

2 ounces 3% hydrogen peroxide...from the pharmacy for cleaning cuts.

1/4 teaspoon white household vinegar....check the baking isle at the super market.

Sea salt to make a saturated solution.



Sodium hydroxide and potassium nitrate are used in one formula for HOT caustic bluing...a dangerous process to put it mildly...take great care with this.

Similar....http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/thread ... tic-bluing



Sodium hydroxide is a poor choice for cleaning the barrel IMO.

What tutorial are you referring to? Sure doesn't sound like slow rust bluing.
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Unread postAuthor: wyz2285 » Mon Sep 30, 2013 2:16 am

The tutorial I found is the one in H.M.Buckley's book The Modern Pneumatic Airgun. I can post the steps here for you to see if they are adequate :)
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CpTn_lAw wrote::D "yay, me wanna make big multishot pnoob with 1000 psi foot pump compressor using diamond as main material. Do you think wet bread make good sealant? " :D
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Unread postAuthor: Gippeto » Mon Sep 30, 2013 8:29 am

Bluing is a topic I find quite interesting...please do. I'm sure the procedure is "adequate" as you put it, sounds VERY different from any I've thus far run across.


Thinking on it...

Wondering if the sodium hydroxide solution is very weak? More along the lines of a degreaser or mag wheel cleaner? That would make more sense.
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Unread postAuthor: wyz2285 » Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:44 am

The original text is too big and as a college freshman I don't have the time anymore, so here are the steps:
Polish the barrel, final polish done with abrasive backed up with cardboard;
Prepare two tanks big enough for the barrel, fill with pure water enough to cover the barrel. Add sodium hydroxide in the proportion of two tablespoons to a gallon;
Line the inside of the barrel with a heavy coat of grease and plug the ends. Make sure the outside of the barrel is free of grease;
Bring one tank to boil and leave the barrel there for around a quarter of an hour. At the end transfer the barrel into the other tank, boil two more minutes;
After two minutes the barrel is removed, hung out to dry and cool. Then the barrel is swabbed with cotton wool saturated in bluing solution. The barrel is set away in a humid place to rust;
Start again after 24h with re-boiling in the same tanks for the same duration and then rubbing down with grease free wire wool. The idea here is that the oxide which is starting to form on the metal is rubbed off;
Repeat until the finish became a satisfactory dark blue/black.
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Unread postAuthor: Gippeto » Mon Sep 30, 2013 1:38 pm

Reposting this here. This is essentially the process I use.


Barrel should be sanded as fine as you want...sand along the length of the part. Some folks say finer than 320 grit is a waste of time...others disagree. Either way, the part needs to be absolutely squeaky clean with not a trace of oil anywhere. A good scrub down with acetone seems to be the norm...handle with gloves only from this point on.

Laurel Mountain Forge makes a barrel brown solution that cuts through a small amount of oil...allowing handling by hand. Good product, and available from Track of the Wolf. Keeping things grease free is still your best bet. When the part is "clean", water will not bead but rather sheet off.

The rust bluing solution is applied to the surface with a bit cotton rag (what I use) VERY sparingly...just enough to dampen the surface, it should not run.

Then it is allowed to form a layer of rust. Some folks hang the pieces in a room with higher humidity (bathroom), some folks use a humidity box. Once the surface has a coating of red iron oxide, it's time to convert that red iron oxide to black iron oxide.

I use a vertical conversion tank. With barrels, I plug the muzzle and suspend the barrel from the breech end. I don't boil the parts per se...I boil the distilled water in a kettle and pour it into a piece of 2" abs pipe with a cap cemented on to it. Insert the barrel leaving the transfer port still out of the water and leave it a few minutes.

A good idea to make sure the kettle holds enough water to fill the pipe. :wink:

Pull the part out and dry it off..let cool slightly...it'll be black now if all is well. Card off the loose black iron oxide with a piece of old denim or DEGREASED 0000 steel wool...rub HARD. Take as much off as you can.

Repeat the process, maintaining faith.(the hard part) The color will deepen with repeated cycles...usually takes 3 cycles before it's easy to see. Keep going...I usually end up doing 12 cycles.

When you've reached a point where you're happy with the color, give the barrel a good scrub down with baking soda and hot tap water...then dry.

While the barrel is still hot, rub it down with a good paste wax...let it dry. Buff the heck out of it, re apply the wax and buff it again. Don't need power equipment, elbow grease is adequate. The wax will fill any open pores in the finish and add a bit of shine. Doesn't show finger prints either. :wink:

Small note, as I do things, from the transfer port to the breech end of the barrel does not get blued...I do not apply solution there either. Not an issue for me when it's hidden by the receiver.

A pretty basic rundown, but should give you some idea of the process. Suggest doing some research and playing with a piece of scrap or such first. :)

For a trial effort, you can make a rusting solution consisting of: 2oz 3% hydrogen peroxide, 1/4tsp white household vinegar and as much sea salt as will dissolve into the solution. This solution works quite well on most steels I've tried it on...not so well on 4130.
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Unread postAuthor: wyz2285 » Mon Sep 30, 2013 1:55 pm

So the main difference is you don't boil the barrel before applying the bluing solution for the first time.
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Unread postAuthor: Gippeto » Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:53 pm

As you've actually read both....I'll take your word for it. :)
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Unread postAuthor: wyz2285 » Tue Oct 01, 2013 3:07 am

The only part I'm not sure about it's the wax. It doesn't left finger prints? Can you mention what wax is used? I currently use silicone to preserve my hw97k but it left finger prints.
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CpTn_lAw wrote::D "yay, me wanna make big multishot pnoob with 1000 psi foot pump compressor using diamond as main material. Do you think wet bread make good sealant? " :D
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Unread postAuthor: CooperJS » Tue Oct 01, 2013 8:04 am

Hey wyz what did you use for the barrel on your pcp rifle that you are currently building??
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Unread postAuthor: Labtecpower » Fri Oct 04, 2013 8:11 am

Machining some stuff for Jake :)

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Unread postAuthor: Gippeto » Fri Oct 04, 2013 8:21 am

Nice job on the knurling. 8)

Wyz...carnuba in a bar form is what was recommended. I had Turtle wax paste and used that with good results.
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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Fri Oct 04, 2013 8:34 am

Gippeto wrote:Nice job on the knurling. 8)


Ditto! Hmmm, time to get me that knurling attachment methinks...
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