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Say hello to my "little" friend

A place to ask general spud cannon related questions.
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Say hello to my "little" friend

Unread postAuthor: mobile chernobyl » Thu Dec 22, 2011 6:09 pm

Finally found a tippmann C3 and jumped on the deal!

Image

I'll be opening it up in the next week or so, but there are plenty of "inner workings" animations of how it works out there so I'm more so concerned about material choices of the gun for future work.

The ignition is not directly tied to the pump-action so there is a chance of misfires if you don't time your pumping with the trigger finger. A misfire is nothing dangerous though and obviously tippmann had a team of engineers working on the gun including the safety concerns - a misfire is more like a "pfft" instead of a nice loud "snap".

Should be able to get about 4 RPS with this gun, which will be great for my pump-gun games!

anyone else out there have one of these?
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Re: Say hello to my "little" friend

Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Fri Dec 23, 2011 2:08 am

mobile chernobyl wrote:Should be able to get about 4 RPS with this gun


... so you're modding it for full auto?
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Unread postAuthor: mobile chernobyl » Mon Dec 26, 2011 1:26 am

No modding yet, but here is a juicy patent to feast on from tippmann regarding a more full-auto friendly design... US Patent # 7665396

I've gotten to shoot it now with paintballs, and the consistency over my new Chrony F1 is pretty good - staying between 275 and 300 fps pretty much.

Thanks to this little piece I just ordered, I'll be able to weld up a "micro" tank now with simple 1/4 NPT female threads to adapt to my gun. I'm planning on making a tank that can hold about 12-15 grams of propane for our "stock" games.

Here is a great review on the gun , as well as an awesome disassembly

Here as some photos of the gun apart for anyone interested.

Overview of ignition system
Image
Limitations I see - only allows 4 balls per second timing. therefore if you are a good pumper (as I am) and can squeeze off a snap shot with two shots being fired under .25 seconds, the ignition will not allow you do this. I'd like to reverse engineer the board or just use a small stun circuit (as that's all this is...) and get rid of the cycle time limitations and instead incorporate a reed switch that will only allow the shooter to fire the gun when the pump is in the full forward position - this will allow "auto-pumping" as well as get rid of the chance of mis-fires from the current system which has the spark system independent of the pump system.

close up the ignition board
Image

::EDIT:: - now that I look at the close up closer the 555 chip is there just as an oscillator most likely to control the ignition coil. I can probably use the coil on there (with the number 0540 on it) and feed in a pulsed current for my own circuit.


valve assembly 1
Image

valve assembly 2
Image

Here you can see the valve which sits in the valve body. This is a very cool design and features a hard Teflon o-ring which seals the chamber in a static position. The rear silicon o-ring on the piston seals the combustion gasses from exiting the overpressure ports on the valve body unless absolutely necessary. The valve body exit port is square so there is a linear increase in surface area for chamber pressure. The red material on the front of the valve body is the silicone seal flap which seals the chamber during combustion, but during the forward pump stroke allows fresh air and a metered amount of propane in. I've already got a sheet of this same material I've been fooling around with to make high temperature seals, so it's comforting to know it's use here.

close picture of the flap
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Here's a picture of the chamber extrusion profile, with a AAA battery to give you an idea of the wall thickness
Image

Here's the barrel and bolt assembly
Image

And finally - I was going to try and salvage a male threaded valve off a disposable tank by de-silversoldering it, that was until I found one manufactured lol... here's what the inside of a disposable tank head looks like.
Image
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Unread postAuthor: POLAND_SPUD » Mon Dec 26, 2011 7:08 am

nice we want MOAR pics
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Unread postAuthor: mobile chernobyl » Mon Dec 26, 2011 1:31 pm

POLAND_SPUD wrote:nice we want MOAR pics


Any specific areas or angles? Just finished the tear down and rebuild so I'm going to enjoy it in working condition for a few moar days :D
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Unread postAuthor: POLAND_SPUD » Mon Dec 26, 2011 3:04 pm

well then if it's in working condition surely you can post a video of it in action
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Unread postAuthor: mobile chernobyl » Mon Dec 26, 2011 10:46 pm

I'll have a video of it working tomorrow -

Here's some more photos of the ignition circuit...

Ignition board, HV side
Image

Underside of that board
Image

Left side view of board top
Image

underside of HV board and controller board
Image

And here's a little 40gram propane tank I found thanks to Mark.F
Image
- it's used for refilling bicycle tires. I was at the bike shop today and remembered it and lo and behold - they had one left! So I picked it up mainly as a novelyy item (was only $4) but also maybe to convert it to use on the disposable tank adapter I bought. I believe the threads on it are 3/8-24, so I'll work off of that in making a 1/4 NPT - 3/8-24 adapter with a piercing needle.
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Unread postAuthor: noname » Tue Dec 27, 2011 1:00 am

Do they still make these? I can't seem to find one anywhere. It's a pretty awesome gun because of the propane and I'd think about getting one depending on the price.
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Unread postAuthor: Zeus » Tue Dec 27, 2011 3:12 am

MC, that capacitor is μ47, not 47μ, so it's 0.47μF. I like the propane canister too.

Noname, I've got nothing to say about your post, but good to see you back.

Edit: Also MC, that inductor is actually a transformer by the looks of it, four pins on the bottom. So it may not be a buck-boost converter.
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Last edited by Zeus on Tue Dec 27, 2011 6:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread postAuthor: dewey-1 » Tue Dec 27, 2011 12:42 pm

mobile chernobyl wrote:Here's some more photos of the ignition circuit...
Ignition board, HV side
Underside of that board


I have a preliminary schematic and PCB done for the Driver/Inverter.

What is the number on Q101, Q103 and T101?

Could you take a close up picture without flash of the controller board?
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Unread postAuthor: mobile chernobyl » Tue Dec 27, 2011 9:02 pm

Got a video of it for all you's interested folks!

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btGFdXeYDKE&list=UUdUpfZ3xfwQ2OrPkhxo5Z5Q&index=1&feature=plcp[/youtube]

noname wrote:Do they still make these? I can't seem to find one anywhere. It's a pretty awesome gun because of the propane and I'd think about getting one depending on the price.


No they stopped making them in or around 2008, and as such they have quickly become either 1: Totally neglected by the user and shelfed or pawned off 2: collected by paintball history horders lol. I bought mine off a paintball shop owner that had collected it in NIB form and sold it to me for $150 shipped, so I consider that to be a very good deal. I've been looking for one of these fairly priced for about 3 years off and on now and finally found this one. If you look on craigslist or pbnation.com and even ebay - occasionally they pop up. Sometimes they are a wreck, and very rarely you find one NIB like I did.

Zeus wrote:MC, that capacitor is μ47, not 47μ, so it's 0.47μF. I like the propane canister too.


Very good catch Zeus - I didn't realize that in the notation!

dewey-1 wrote:
mobile chernobyl wrote:Here's some more photos of the ignition circuit...
Ignition board, HV side
Underside of that board


I have a preliminary schematic and PCB done for the Driver/Inverter.

What is the number on Q101, Q103 and T101?

Could you take a close up picture without flash of the controller board?


I was hoping you would respond! :D

Q101
http://parts.digikey.com/1/parts/100904 ... 1049a.html

Q102
http://parts.digikey.com/1/parts/100906 ... 1149a.html

Q103 - see photos, can’t find exact part

T101
Not sure but here are the markings and I'll give you the resistance values I can get.
It’s made by CEC-coils America LLC
Has 4 pins, resistance values between each pin:
Pin 2 to any other pin – appx 52Ω
Pins 1-4 - .4Ω
Pins 4-3 - .4Ω
Pins 1-3 - .6Ω

And some photos:

Controller board without flash
Image

Q103 close up
Image
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Unread postAuthor: dewey-1 » Wed Dec 28, 2011 4:53 pm

Q103 is a FLC10-200H made by STMicroElectronics.
FLC stands for Fire Lighter Circuit.

Here is a Datasheet;

http://www.st.com/internet/com/TECHNICA ... 001213.pdf

All I need now is T101 part number.
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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Thu Dec 29, 2011 5:22 am

Excellent video :)

It can't be too hard to go from this to a pump action self-contained hybrid...
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Unread postAuthor: POLAND_SPUD » Thu Dec 29, 2011 10:56 am

Q103 is a FLC10-200H made by STMicroElectronics.
FLC stands for Fire Lighter Circuit.
uhmm so what does it really do ? does it do what breaker points in a traditional car ignition system do ?

Got a video of it for all you's interested folks!
thx, it is a lot more professional than vids of that guy who does some fancy video editing and asks everyone to subscribe his channel


:wink:
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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:10 pm

POLAND_SPUD wrote:a lot more professional than vids of that guy who does some fancy video editing and asks everyone to subscribe his channel


yup, I hate that guy :)
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