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help with some gas's

A place to ask general spud cannon related questions.
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co2 or nitrogen

co2
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nitrogen
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help with some gas's

Unread postAuthor: trae08 » Sat Feb 10, 2007 10:39 pm

ok my chamber will be 12 inches long out of 4 in sch 40 pvc.

my question is i dunno how to find out volume. flame me al you want for that idc. but i am wanting to run my gun of a gas so i can shoot glow sticks into the ocean at night on the beach..

im going to be running this gun at about 110 psi with a modded sprinkler.
i want to know which tank would last longer and which one would be easier to fill.

and for those who might say watch out the cold co2 might cool your chamber and cause it to explode. im going to be running the gas into a steel tank then to my gun.


co2
* Easy Carry Handle
* 7" Diameter
* 27" Height
* 1800 PSI
* CGA-320 Valve
* Good for 15-18 Kegs

nitrogen
* 5.5" Diameter
* 18.5" Height
* 2216 PSI
* 153 BAR
* CGA-580 Valve
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Unread postAuthor: paaiyan » Sat Feb 10, 2007 10:42 pm

75.36 cubic inches. The formula is pi(3.14) * R^2 * length. As for which tank owuld last longer, I'd have to know the volume of each. Find that out and I can tell you.
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Unread postAuthor: SpudBlaster15 » Sat Feb 10, 2007 11:14 pm

paaiyan wrote:75.36 cubic inches.


Huh?

V=pir^2h
V=pi(2^2)(12)
V=150.8in^3

As for your second question, you will need to know the volume of each tank.

CO2:
V=pi(3.5^2)(27)
V=1038.5in^3

Nitrogen:
V=pi(2.75^2)(18.5)
V=439.5in^3

Then, using the ideal gas law, you can calculate the quantity of fills you could acheive using each tank: At atmospheric pressure, one mole of any gas occupies 22.4L. For CO2:

1038.5in^3 converts to 17L. In order to find out how much gas we have in the bottle, we must perform the following calculation:

1800/14.7
122.4atm
122.4x17
2080.8L

So, we have 2080.8L of CO2 in the bottle. Now we can use the following equation to calculate the number of shots that could be obtained from the bottle:

P1V1=P2V2
P1 = 14.7
V1= 2080.8
P2= 110 (your desired chamber pressure)

P1V1/P2=V2
(14.7)(2080.8 )/110=P2
P2=278.1
278.1/2.47L
111.6

So, you could fill your chamber about 112 times.

Nitrogen:
P1=14.7
V1=1087
P2=110
P1V1=P2V2
(14.7)(1087)=(110)V2
V2=(14.7)(1097)/(110)
V2=146.6
146.6/2.47
59.4

So, you could fill the chamber about 59 times with this tank.

Hope this helps.

EDIT: Edited for the 4th frickin time now, finally realizing why my 8 followed by a ) was showing up as the emoticon 8). Duh!
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Last edited by SpudBlaster15 on Sun Feb 11, 2007 12:28 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Unread postAuthor: paaiyan » Sat Feb 10, 2007 11:25 pm

Eh, my bad. Stupid calculator didn't square the radius for me. I concede that point to spudblaster.
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Unread postAuthor: boilingleadbath » Sun Feb 11, 2007 12:27 pm

...except that the CO2 is stored as a liquified gas, so the ideal gas law is nowhere near correct.

Do they tell you the weight of the CO2 that the CO2 tank holds?
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Unread postAuthor: SpudBlaster15 » Sun Feb 11, 2007 1:15 pm

boilingleadbath wrote:...except that the CO2 is stored as a liquified gas


Interesting, I didnt know it liquified at that pressure.

Trae08, we are going to need to know the weight of CO2 in the tank, so we can convert that to moles, and thus use the ideal gas law to find out how much volume the gas would occupy at standard pressure.
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Unread postAuthor: paaiyan » Sun Feb 11, 2007 2:13 pm

You know, I'm a chemistry major, but I always did hate the gas laws. Maybe instead of arguing about all this, we should just suggest he go get a couple 20 oz CO2 canisters. I can guarantee that would last a good amount of time.
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Unread postAuthor: SpudBlaster15 » Sun Feb 11, 2007 2:58 pm

Im not arguing, what makes you think that? I enjoy discussions involving physical sciences as I usually learn alot. Both I and BLB want to help the OP to determine which tank will last longer, as his question stated.
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Unread postAuthor: paaiyan » Sun Feb 11, 2007 2:59 pm

Well if we can get the weight of the contained gas when the canisters are full, it shouldn't be any problem. Then it's jsut a matter of comparing the molar masses of each.
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Unread postAuthor: trae08 » Sun Feb 11, 2007 3:45 pm

15 lb. Aluminum Co2 Tank. im not sure if thats the wieght of the co2 or the tank but thats all i can find out.. im thinking ill just go with co2 as it will be tons easier to fill also. thanks for all your help
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Unread postAuthor: paaiyan » Sun Feb 11, 2007 3:51 pm

15 pounds?! Geez. I don't see why you went through all the trouble of asking us. That's a whole lot of CO2. Granted your gun is gonna use more than my paintball gun does but I put 800 rounds through my spyder TL-R before my 12 oz tank ran out. You'd have to be out for a long time to run that out I'd think.
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Unread postAuthor: SpudBlaster15 » Sun Feb 11, 2007 4:20 pm

Well, if there is 15lbs of CO2 in the tank, then...

15lbs = 6804 grams
CO2 = 44 grams per mole
6804/44 = 154.6 moles of CO2
154.6x22.4 = 3463L

P1V1=P2V2
V2=P1V1/P2
V2=(14.7)(3463)/(110)
V2=462.8
462.8/2.47
187.4

You could fill it about 187 times.
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Unread postAuthor: paaiyan » Sun Feb 11, 2007 4:22 pm

Yea you go for all the stoichiometry. I'm tired of that crap. Spent so long on it in chem. Bleh. But there you go, a whole dagum day of potatoes.
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Unread postAuthor: SpudBlaster15 » Sun Feb 11, 2007 4:31 pm

I never get tired of it. :D

...Then again, I have not yet taken any chemistry classes, they dont offer them until 11th grade.
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Unread postAuthor: paaiyan » Sun Feb 11, 2007 4:50 pm

Well that's high school chem, I'm in college. I used to be cool with it but we did so much gas law stoichiometry I hate it now. I still love chemistry but the gas laws, not so much.
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