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been bothering me

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been bothering me

Unread postAuthor: sandman » Mon Jun 25, 2007 6:15 am

ok for the past week ive been thinking bout this.

Can you compress propane and oxygen so much that the kinetic energy of the particles surpasses the activation energy of the reaction, and hence you get a boom?

i only have 1 year of chem under my belt so obviously i dont know everything :roll:
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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Mon Jun 25, 2007 6:18 am

what, like in a diesel engine?
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Unread postAuthor: spud yeti » Mon Jun 25, 2007 6:22 am

Do you mean propane and oxygen mixed together, or seperately? I guess in theory it could be correct, but really, I think its only a nice thought! :wink:
I guess one could relate it to the compression of gun powder, so it makes one think........
(Freak I hope Im not talking crap with the gun powder!! :oops: )
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Unread postAuthor: chaos » Mon Jun 25, 2007 6:54 am

do you mean like Super-critical mass like an A-Bomb?
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Unread postAuthor: jrrdw » Mon Jun 25, 2007 7:01 am

No, i think once you compress it so much, you just can't make it any smaller. The compression just stops??? Does that make any sence?
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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Mon Jun 25, 2007 7:15 am

jrrdw wrote:No, i think once you compress it so much, you just can't make it any smaller. The compression just stops??? Does that make any sence?


as you compress it, it heats up and eventually should ignite spontaneously
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Unread postAuthor: joannaardway » Mon Jun 25, 2007 7:18 am

This process is known as Dieseling (as JSR suggested) - it would be possible to ignite a propane/oxygen, or propane/air mix by extreme compression of the mixture.

Rapid compression of the mixture is preferable, as then heat is produced, which will make it even easier to do.

If you knew the activation energy of propane/air or Propane/oxygen, you could predict the required compression needed.
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Unread postAuthor: homedepotpro » Mon Jun 25, 2007 12:17 pm

im pretty sure the propane would just liquefy at those high pressures unless you heated it considerably, and once its liquifide it can't be compress anymore
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Unread postAuthor: schismatized » Mon Jun 25, 2007 1:07 pm

uhh wait its summer and im a little rusty on chem, but as pressure increase kinetic energy increases right? therefore the temp would go up by itself.. why would it liquify?
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Unread postAuthor: rednecktatertosser » Mon Jun 25, 2007 2:10 pm

I dont believe the energy of compression would be enough keep propane from going into liquid form.
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Unread postAuthor: sandman » Mon Jun 25, 2007 4:28 pm

oh, so we are talking bout massive pressures?

cause i was thinking of a super burst disk, but it was just a thought :idea:
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Unread postAuthor: jimmy101 » Mon Jun 25, 2007 4:49 pm

If you compress propane and air enough it will indeed ignite. Even if the propane liquifies it will still ignite.

You can ignite a piece of paper in a air filled piston+cylinder if you can get the compression ratio up over something like 15:1. (This is called a "Fire Piston".)
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Unread postAuthor: boilingleadbath » Tue Jun 26, 2007 7:53 pm

Adapted diesel engines can burn propane... and I believe they are known for their longevity.
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Unread postAuthor: sandman » Tue Jun 26, 2007 8:02 pm

so, in other words not useful for spudguns?
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Unread postAuthor: Fnord » Tue Jun 26, 2007 8:15 pm

You can ignite a piece of paper in a air filled piston+cylinder if you can get the compression ratio up over something like 15:1. (This is called a "Fire Piston".)


I've never seen this before. The paper doesn't ignite by itself does it?
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