Let's start another debate here shall we?


Postby BewareOfDog » Fri Jan 12, 2007 1:03 am

Nah, no misunderstanding of the meaning of trhe song. I'm somehow now reminded of "One In A Million" by G&R.
BewareOfDog
 
Posts: 4306
Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2003 12:37 am
Location: USA
 

Postby aturner » Fri Jan 12, 2007 1:04 am

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="tahoma,verdana,arial" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Navigator7
Do you honestly believe the enemy would not kill as many innocent Americans as possible if they could?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote"> You are correct....and that's precisely the reason why our conventional war could fail. Maybe instead of pirates, you ought to consider any number of revolutions where Guerrilla warfare played a significant role? I hope we can somehow build a stable Iraq, but I'm not going to assume it will happen just because Nav told me pirate stories.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="tahoma,verdana,arial" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
What is relevant about Vietnam and Iraq is a war in Vietnam was not prosecuted.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
The other thing they have in common is the type of warfare involved. Carpet bombing is not an option, so we're fighting house to house, street to street, with an enemy that vanishes into the general population.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="tahoma,verdana,arial" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
But I'm having a little deja vue, aTurner.
It's real easy to insult somebody that throws something on the wall and puts forth an ideology but I observe you are always shooting spit wads from the balcony and never put forth and real substance.

Tell me...do I have to endure an exchange of ideas or insults from you?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote"> So this is where you stoop to insulting me, by claiming I've insulted you? If I attack your ideas, I must be a bad guy eh?

Anyway, I think the troop increase is worth a try. So what's to debate? I think I'll go have a nice cold beer now. Later.
aturner
 
Posts: 1470
Joined: Thu May 27, 2004 1:50 pm
Location: USA
 

Postby aturner » Fri Jan 12, 2007 1:06 am

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="tahoma,verdana,arial" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by DR
I'm somehow now reminded of "One In A Million" by G&R.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Me too! Jinx!
;)
aturner
 
Posts: 1470
Joined: Thu May 27, 2004 1:50 pm
Location: USA
 

Postby aturner » Fri Jan 12, 2007 1:12 am

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="tahoma,verdana,arial" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Navigator7
[br]Man, aturner!!
I'm embarrassed for you for posting that link.

That was a subversive coward song of the 60's.

Perhaps I misunderstand your drift?

Before I say more...mebbie you could comment?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
So, you think our government should not be questioned? They should tax the common man to death and then send all our sons to fight in places like 'Nam?
aturner
 
Posts: 1470
Joined: Thu May 27, 2004 1:50 pm
Location: USA
 

Sponsored

Sponsor
 
 

Postby BewareOfDog » Fri Jan 12, 2007 1:18 am

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="tahoma,verdana,arial" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by aturner
So, you think our government should not be questioned? They should tax the common man to death and then send all our sons to fight in places like 'Nam?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Yes!- Question every decision made! In the end, make your own decision... Then when you're lying in bed at night and some extremist detonates a truckload of fertilizer and diesel fuel in your neighborhood, you can rest assured that your house will remain intact because of your impartiality.
BewareOfDog
 
Posts: 4306
Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2003 12:37 am
Location: USA
 

Postby Navigator7 » Fri Jan 12, 2007 1:40 am

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="tahoma,verdana,arial" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by aturnerMaybe instead of pirates, you ought to consider any number of revolutions where Guerrilla warfare played a significant role? I hope we can somehow build a stable Iraq, but I'm not going to assume it will happen just because Nav told me pirate stories.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Alright...slow down and lets take this a little more serious.

I'm not telling pirates stories, I'm quoting history.
"Forget history, repeat mistakes?"
We have done this before with the same muslim bast...

Exerpt: <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="tahoma,verdana,arial" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">America and the Barbary Pirates: An
International Battle Against an Unconventional Foe
by Gerard W. Gawalt
Gerard W. Gawalt is the manu$cript specialist for early American history in the Manu$cript Division, Library of Congress.
Ruthless, unconventional foes are not new to the United States of America. More than two hundred years ago the newly established United States made its first attempt to fight an overseas battle to protect its private citizens by building an international coalition against an unconventional enemy. Then the enemies were pirates and piracy. The focus of the United States and a proposed international coalition was the Barbary Pirates of North Africa.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/collections ... prece.html

Or this excerpt: <blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="tahoma,verdana,arial" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Though a definite link has yet to be established (or publicized), it becomes more apparent with each passing day that the acts of terror on September 11 were undertaken by individuals belonging to or associated with the Al-Qaida organization. While the group has ties to the Taliban, the current ruling faction in Afghanistan, neither can really be considered a government, making war with either an unconventional one. Yet the United States is hardly unused to combating unconventional foes. While the Vietnam War and the "War on Drugs" may bear some parallels, perhaps the most germane historical example is the often forgotten war with the Barbary pirates in the early 19th century. This conflict, pitting the United States against a stateless enemy, was memorable for the use of careful diplomacy, coalitions, special military tactics, and, unfortunately, confused goals.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
http://hnn.us/articles/287.html

There are tons more info on this...but the point is...they are muslims and they are using their ill gotton gain to rid the earth of guys like you and me.

I don't think they should be allowed.

Yet, the left has made a bigger enemy out of Bush and the military than the POS's who are causing all the problems in the first place.
Navigator7
 
Posts: 2635
Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2004 12:00 pm
Location: USA
 

Postby aturner » Fri Jan 12, 2007 8:49 am

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="tahoma,verdana,arial" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by DR
[br]Yes!- Question every decision made! In the end, make your own decision... Then when you're lying in bed at night and some extremist detonates a truckload of fertilizer and diesel fuel in your neighborhood, you can rest assured that your house will remain intact because of your impartiality.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Or by the grace of god. I've come to realize that no man has power over me...except what god gives them. So you go right on wondering about the truckload.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="tahoma,verdana,arial" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Navigator7
[br]Alright...slow down and lets take this a little more serious.

I'm not telling pirates stories, I'm quoting history.
"Forget history, repeat mistakes?"
We have done this before with the same muslim bast...<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
You conveniently remember the parts that fit your agenda. So if you want to talk about Pirates from more than a century or two in the past, then sure, there is something to learn from that history. But let's also not overlook the more modern examples that may be more directly relevant.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="tahoma,verdana,arial" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
There are tons more info on this...but the point is...they are muslims and they are using their ill gotton gain to rid the earth of guys like you and me. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Do you think the pirates were interested changing the world and promoting an ideology? Were they fighting in the name of spiritual beliefs? Or just in the name of money and power? Apples and oranges.

I've got a more recent and relevant example for you pal. Russian occupation of Afghanistan, 1980's. We had Reagan and Bush I as our presidents during that time. The Russians were "rebuilding" that country, and America provided weapons and financial support for the jihadist rebels in Afghanistan. Those same jihadist organizations are the ones who have risen to meet us now. They still use the same guerrilla techniques, and they fight for the same beliefs. They want outsiders to remain out.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="tahoma,verdana,arial" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Yet, the left has made a bigger enemy out of Bush and the military than the POS's who are causing all the problems in the first place.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
...says the man who vilifies any and all presidents from "The Left" on a daily basis. Go ahead....I know exactly what's coming next. You can barely contain yourself. You are getting ready to type something about Clinton being worse than the terrorists because of blah blah blah....pirates!
aturner
 
Posts: 1470
Joined: Thu May 27, 2004 1:50 pm
Location: USA
 

Postby someguynamedchris » Fri Jan 12, 2007 9:09 am

We need a way to punish the new Iraqi government. Lets take the bench marks for example we wanted them the president of Iraq basically said [intercourse] off so what could we do?

This is the same exact thing as Vietnam except the American people want to win this time it’s the Iraqis that don’t want victory.
someguynamedchris
 
Posts: 582
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2003 8:33 pm
Location: USA
 

Postby Navigator7 » Fri Jan 12, 2007 11:22 am

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="tahoma,verdana,arial" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by aturner
Or by the grace of god. I've come to realize that no man has power over me...except what god gives them. So you go right on wondering about the truckload.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Yet again another post lacking substance.

The man that stands for nothing but falls for anything.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="tahoma,verdana,arial" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">aturner~Do you think the pirates were interested changing the world and promoting an ideology? Were they fighting in the name of spiritual beliefs? Or just in the name of money and power? Apples and oranges.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
I think you have a Walt Disney view of Pirates...you've invested no time learning the history of "Pirates". To you and a few others the term conjures up comedy and laughter...but it's friggen deadly serious. The al qaida of today is exactly the same mindset of the pirates. They are the same people. Jihadists.
So..yes the pirates wanted to slit the throats of all non-believers...and hell yes they were promoting a twisted ideology! They are parasites. Living off the value of commodities produced by others, or extracting torture, blood and death for non payment. Because they also needed currency to promote their sick agenda...as they don't produce a flipping thing except bloodshed and camel dung. It transparent evil.

Yes! They are fighting for a spiritual belief spoiled by Mohammed. (Who was living proof the indians made love to buffalo.)


<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="tahoma,verdana,arial" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> aturner-I've got a more recent and relevant example for you pal. Russian occupation of Afghanistan, 1980's. We had Reagan and Bush I as our presidents during that time. The Russians were "rebuilding" that country, and America provided weapons and financial support for the jihadist rebels in Afghanistan. Those same jihadist organizations are the ones who have risen to meet us now. They still use the same guerrilla techniques, and they fight for the same beliefs.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
It's a fault we American have. Our word means something. The lesson is muslim rebels are not trustworthy. Their commitment to a cause or an ally changes as fast as a dogs commitment to a new master with food.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="tahoma,verdana,arial" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Aturner~They want outsiders to remain out.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">Well that's all fine and dandy~Pal~.
If they would just keep all of their own inside their own borders that would be a marvelous improvement. But they didn't do that did they? You gonna talk to 'em or do you want me to set it up?
<img src="http://ecosyn.us/ecocity/Challenges/wtc/TN_991.JPG">
Navigator7
 
Posts: 2635
Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2004 12:00 pm
Location: USA
 

Postby TurboSuper » Fri Jan 12, 2007 11:32 am

I still can't figure out why the 'States invaded Iraq of all places. Hell, the government couldn't seem to figure it out either, every day they pretty much had a different reason for being there.

Then Bush said "mission accomplished".

What mission did he accomplish? Can anyone who knows more about current events than I clarify this?

It's not like Iraq is the only country that was training terrorists, hell, I'd be willing to bet it's a far cry from many other countries in the Middle Eastern region.


The way I see it, if the Americans were to leave Iraq there would be a massive civil war until another Sadaam comes into power to unite the nation, and if they stay well... we'll just have to see...
TurboSuper
 
Posts: 1405
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2005 3:29 pm
Location: Canada
 
 
PreviousNext

Return to Political Rants, Discussions & Debates