Let's start another debate here shall we?


Postby aturner » Fri Jan 12, 2007 1:07 pm

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="tahoma,verdana,arial" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Navigator7
Yet again another post lacking substance.

The man that stands for nothing but falls for anything.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
I mention my faith, and you say I fall for anything? Ouch.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="tahoma,verdana,arial" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> aturner-I've got a more recent and relevant example for you pal. Russian occupation of Afghanistan, 1980's. We had Reagan and Bush I as our presidents during that time. The Russians were "rebuilding" that country, and America provided weapons and financial support for the jihadist rebels in Afghanistan. Those same jihadist organizations are the ones who have risen to meet us now. They still use the same guerrilla techniques, and they fight for the same beliefs.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="tahoma,verdana,arial" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Nav-It's a fault we American have. Our word means something. The lesson is muslim rebels are not trustworthy. Their commitment to a cause or an ally changes as fast as a dogs commitment to a new master with food. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote"> I thought smart guys like Reagan and GH Bush would have learned that lesson from the Pirates! Dang, I hate it when Republican leadership keeps repeating the same mistakes! What's next? Iran? North Korea? Let's become peter pan and go save the world from pirates before it's too late.
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Postby spuzi14 » Sat Jan 13, 2007 12:00 am

I'm just trying to get a grip here...is the arguement between Aturner and Nav about how pirates of a long time ago related to extremeists today?
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Postby BewareOfDog » Sat Jan 13, 2007 12:56 am

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="tahoma,verdana,arial" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><b>Originally posted by aturner</b>
<i>Originally posted by DR
Yes!- Question every decision made! In the end, make your own decision... Then when you're lying in bed at night and some extremist detonates a truckload of fertilizer and diesel fuel in your neighborhood, you can rest assured that your house will remain intact because of your impartiality.</i>
<b>
Or by the grace of god. I've come to realize that no man has power over me...except what god gives them. So you go right on wondering about the truckload.</b><hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

I've come to realize that man has more power than ever should have been given to him. The opinion you state is ridiculous at best... You may as well have said that we (as a nation) do not even need a military force, seeing as how God (spelled with capital "g") will watch our borders for us.

Man was given free will and that free will comes with no other thought than to live for the moment and to hell with any eternal consequences.
It is sad that we are given free reign over this Earth, as most of us haven't so much as the slightest clue how to wipe our own ass.

If a dog snaps at you, you beat him into submission. If he snaps at you again, you put him down, You don't wait until your back is turned and he goes for your neck... or the neck of someone less able to defend themselves.

Pirates <b>were</b> interested changing the world and promoting an ideology! The ideology that you live by the sword and die by the sword!


Men fight to gain money and power. They do so "in the name of God", so that their "ideology" cannot be disputed. No apples and oranges here, because if an individual (or group "of" individual<b>s</b>) truly believes that he/she has a God-given <b>right</b> to plunder the world, then who can argue with them?

"Anarchy", combined with apathy, is a deadly combination.
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Postby altxf4 » Sat Jan 13, 2007 2:35 am

My only comment to this thread is that I am Pissed that this....conflict is not politically refered to what it really is still today. It is a WAR! As it being a war, but concidered now only a conflict...Our men and women are denied alot of benefits to them and their families! They deserve better!

I may not agree with the president, but I would be serving right now if I was able to!
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Postby TurboSuper » Sat Jan 13, 2007 6:06 am

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="tahoma,verdana,arial" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by DR
If a dog snaps at you, you beat him into submission. If he snaps at you again, you put him down, You don't wait until your back is turned and he goes for your neck... or the neck of someone less able to defend themselves.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Judging by your "title", does that mean we can beat <i>you</i> into submission?


[:p]
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Postby Navigator7 » Sun Jan 14, 2007 11:40 pm

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="tahoma,verdana,arial" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by spuzi14
[br]I'm just trying to get a grip here...is the arguement between Aturner and Nav about how pirates of a long time ago related to extremeists today?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

It's going to be kinda hard unless you actually read about the Barbary Pirates.

At least one member here thinks it's a joke.....and it is deadly serious.
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Postby spuzi14 » Mon Jan 15, 2007 11:40 am

Well Nav I was just noticing that the thread was growing into an arugement instead of a debate as the title states.

I do understand it's deadly serious but if we leave the pot of boiling water on the stove forever, we'll get sick of boiling it (or something like that, I think I contradicted myself...I dunno).
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Postby aturner » Mon Jan 15, 2007 11:48 am

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="tahoma,verdana,arial" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by DR
[br]I've come to realize that man has more power than ever should have been given to him. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
True. 99.99...9% of us deserve hell. Good thing for grace.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="tahoma,verdana,arial" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
The opinion you state is ridiculous at best... You may as well have said that we (as a nation) do not even need a military force, seeing as how God (spelled with capital "g") will watch our borders for us. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">Sorry for the lack of clarity. I was directing my comments at your highly improbable scenario. I am not a complete pacifist, even if I admire folks who are. It's just that I can't be bothered to worry about every bad scenario that might arise in life. There are so many ways that life can go wrong, that I just try to focus on the things within my power. You and I both know that I have no power to stop a random nutcase (at least on a consistent basis). Neither does anyone else have that power. I also don't think we should imprison ourselves as a means of protection. These factors may be a good reason to NOT be wasting American time, money, and lives in Iraq---because it has no impact on the most extreme radicals who will employ any means.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="tahoma,verdana,arial" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Men fight to gain money and power. They do so "in the name of God", so that their "ideology" cannot be disputed. No apples and oranges here, because if an individual (or group "of" individual<b>s</b>) truly believes that he/she has a God-given <b>right</b> to plunder the world, then who can argue with them?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote"> Okay, but I argue there is a difference in motivation. You think the Jihadists are motivated by a thirst for power? You think the pirates wanted to spread their way of life, or simply amass wealth?

The only part of the analogy the holds is not giving an enemy a ransom. The ransom will later be used against us. That's what we can learn.
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Postby aturner » Mon Jan 15, 2007 11:53 am

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="tahoma,verdana,arial" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Navigator7
[br]It's going to be kinda hard unless you actually read about the Barbary Pirates.

At least one member here thinks it's a joke.....and it is deadly serious.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Nav clear something up for me please. You said we should have learned from what occurred in Afghanistan back in the 1980's. I think you said we should have learned that people from that region of the world would turn on us, and therefore do not deserve our trust, support, or help. Is that a fair summary of your stated beliefs?

Now, here's where I need your help. What does this tell us about the U.S. goals in Iraq?
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Postby Navigator7 » Mon Jan 15, 2007 1:51 pm

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="tahoma,verdana,arial" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by aturner
Nav, clear something up for me please. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

911
US National Security....It's a requirement.
Protecting American civilians
Protecting the American Way of life
Promoting Liberty and freedom around the world.


Frankly, before the war in Iraq...I feared the Iraqi people would not be equal to the sacrifices our country would willingly make to separate them from an evil dictator who was indeed a threat to the world.

After 4 war years, the crucible of war has burned off all that doesn't matter...what I find ...it is The Liberal Party and Liberal Thought that is not equal to the sacrifices our country would willingly make to promote freedom and liberty around the world.

I say it is you that needs to explain your position.

Help spread war, terror, death, suffering and genocide around the world.
Join the Democratic Party Today!
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