Let's start another debate here shall we?


Postby aturner » Mon Jan 15, 2007 2:57 pm

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="tahoma,verdana,arial" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Navigator7
[br]US National Security....It's a requirement.
Protecting American civilians
Protecting the American Way of life
Promoting Liberty and freedom around the world.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
No kidding.

It is apparent you won't respond to my simple question. Instead, you would rather attack ME, by attempting to equate ME with an entire political party? It reminds me of the approach taken by Bush on Iraq. Always changing the subject when it comes to Iraq....enforcing a UN resolution...Weapons of Mass Destruction...fight against terrorism...promoting democracy...pirates!

No. I won't let you slither off. Look at what you said about "muslim rebels" in Afghanistan...

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="tahoma,verdana,arial" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">It's a fault we American have. Our word means something. The lesson is muslim rebels are not trustworthy. Their commitment to a cause or an ally changes as fast as a dogs commitment to a new master with food. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

YOU spoke in a degrading fashion about "muslim rebels" in Afghanistan.

But can we even identify the "muslim rebels" in Iraq?

Who are we even supporting in Iraq?

Again, and most importantly, what does this mean about US goals in Iraq?
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Postby Navigator7 » Mon Jan 15, 2007 4:21 pm

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="tahoma,verdana,arial" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by aturner
Again, and most importantly, what does this mean about US goals in Iraq?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

You are so obtuse you overlooked my response.
Like I said previously:
911
US National Security....It's a requirement.
Protecting American civilians
Protecting the American Way of life
Promoting Liberty and Freedom around the world.

These are our goals in Iraq.

Failure means America and the world is left in the breech.

You act as if we ignore the terrorists they don't exist. Or, the terrorists justified.

Either way..your input on this subject fit the Liberal Agenda to a tee which I consider a threat to my way of life....Hence the lack of respect.
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Postby aturner » Mon Jan 15, 2007 5:27 pm

Look at Nav. He's turning into Bill Clinton before our eyes. Trying to dodge questions. Would rather debate what "is" is.

I did not ask you to outline US goals. These so called goals seem to change quite often. I've already outlined the progression for you, from enforcing a UN resolution to WMD to ousting a ruthless dictator to spreading freedom. It seems the goals keep getting more and more vague, in hopes that more people will feel inclined to agree with our lofty and noble goals.

To clarify, I originally asked you two questions.

1. Is the following a fair summary of your stated beliefs
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="tahoma,verdana,arial" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">You said we should have learned from what occurred in Afghanistan back in the 1980's. I think you said we should have learned that people from that region of the world would turn on us, and therefore do not deserve our trust, support, or help. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Yes or no?

2. I asked about the <b>impact</b> of the events in 1980's Afghanistan on our goals? I asked only because you said in the 1980's we learned the following.....
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="tahoma,verdana,arial" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
"It's a fault we American have. Our word means something. The lesson is muslim rebels are not trustworthy. Their commitment to a cause or an ally changes as fast as a dogs commitment to a new master with food."<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">


It's great to learn from history. You seem eager to say we can't appease pirates. Sounds good to me. But ever since you fingered the "muslim rebels" of Afghanistan as modern day pirates, you seem to be flip flopping worse than John Kerry when he's cooking pancakes at the beach.
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Postby Navigator7 » Mon Jan 15, 2007 6:27 pm

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="tahoma,verdana,arial" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by aturner
[br]Look at Nav. He's turning into Bill Clinton before our eyes. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Now your just getting mean and nasty!
LOL ;-)
Yes...getting your male member sucked in the oval office, the First Lady outside the oval office window on the first lawn is IS sex. It's also treason!

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="tahoma,verdana,arial" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
I did not ask you to outline US goals. These so called goals seem to change quite often. I've already outlined the progression for you, from enforcing a UN resolution to WMD to ousting a ruthless dictator to spreading freedom. It seems the goals keep getting more and more vague, in hopes that more people will feel inclined to agree with our lofty and noble goals.

To clarify, I originally asked you two questions.

1. Is the following a fair summary of your stated beliefs
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="tahoma,verdana,arial" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">You said we should have learned from what occurred in Afghanistan back in the 1980's. I think you said we should have learned that people from that region of the world would turn on us, and therefore do not deserve our trust, support, or help. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Yes or no?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
No...not fair if you only good back to 1980.
Yes..is fair if you go back to the age when USA was formed.

Your snippet was from a post you made indicating we assisted the Mujahadine (Sp) in a war with the Soviet Union.

Well...I tell you it's one thing to pass out bullets and hand grenades to an ally that someday may become an enemy... it's another thing to give nuclear material to a despot that will never be our friend...Like clinton did with North Korea.

If I only had the quote.... Paraphrasing Albright about the debacle: "They lied to us!"
The clinton legacy when question about our impending nuclearwar.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="tahoma,verdana,arial" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">2. I asked about the <b>impact</b> of the events in 1980's Afghanistan on our goals? I asked only because you said in the 1980's we learned the following.....
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="tahoma,verdana,arial" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
"It's a fault we Americans have. Our word means something. The lesson is muslim rebels are not trustworthy. Their commitment to a cause or an ally changes as fast as a dogs commitment to a new master with food."<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">


It's great to learn from history. You seem eager to say we can't appease pirates. Sounds good to me. But ever since you fingered the "muslim rebels" of Afghanistan as modern day pirates, you seem to be flip flopping worse than John Kerry when he's cooking pancakes at the beach.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Never mind #1 above lacked a question mark...I figgered it out.
#2 is a bit more serious. Aside form the insults...where is the question?

o Appeasement of the pirates a hundreds of years ago and appeasement of the pirates today is the same. It will not work. Just as liberalism, socialism or communism does not work. They are the same enemey! I wasn't eager to to "tell" you pirates cannot be appeased...I'm telling you pirates cannot be appeased. They should be killed like cows in a mad cow epidemic. Yet the entire Left want's to appease an enemy that will kill us in our sleep if we let them. Throw America under the bus....to get Bush. Problem is...they don't want to die...they just want Bush to die.

Me flip flop? Like Kerry? A master flip flopper? Come on aTurner....leave treason to the Pros in the DNC.

What's your subversive agenda? You didn't kick it out yet.
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Postby BewareOfDog » Mon Jan 15, 2007 7:38 pm

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="tahoma,verdana,arial" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><b>Originally posted by aturner</b>
<i>Originally posted by DR</i>
Men fight to gain money and power. They do so "in the name of God", so that their "ideology" cannot be disputed. No apples and oranges here, because if an individual (or group "of" individual<b>s</b>) truly believes that he/she has a God-given <b>right</b> to plunder the world, then who can argue with them?

<b>Okay, but I argue there is a difference in motivation. You think the Jihadists are motivated by a thirst for power?</b>
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Yes, I do believe that the Jihadists are motivated by a thirst for power. Some will claim differently, now that it is 1,300 years after the Qur'an was revelealed to Mohammed.

Muslims believe that it is the literal word of God and that it is God's final revelation to humanity. "Historical facts say that Islam has been imperialisticâ€â€
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Postby Navigator7 » Mon Jan 15, 2007 7:50 pm

<a href="http://concretepumpingadvice.com/detail.asp?id=8350&p=1">GOSH....From a German Capitalist too!</a>


DR....I beg to differ with you on the point of Privateer.

The Barbary Prirtaes were jihadists.....but before you can attack the world you need some coin.

I'm pouring a rubber mold at the moment and don't have the luxury of time.

Sooner than later I will document my position.
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Postby spuzi14 » Mon Jan 15, 2007 7:58 pm

Nav, you meantioned spreading libery and freedom around the world...

I STRONGLY disagree with that choice. We should NOT do that! America (in my opinion) is too nice all the time. We want to help but often help too much while ignoring problems within the country (border patrol, poverty, crime, bad gov officials). America needs to finish business in Iraq then drop the iron curtain. Our country needs renovated, it has become a tangled mess of bullshit thanks to our involvement in other countries. I beleive we would be able to operate this war much better if our country was in better shape.
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Postby BewareOfDog » Mon Jan 15, 2007 8:06 pm

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="tahoma,verdana,arial" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Navigator7
DR....I beg to differ with you on the point of Privateer.

The Barbary Prirtaes were jihadists.....but before you can attack the world you need some coin.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Whatever you may label a particular group of individuals; Pirates, privateers, jihadists, mercenaries, etc. - You still cannot deny that most men are encouraged to fight, because of the hope of some type of political or monetary gain.
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Postby aturner » Mon Jan 15, 2007 10:47 pm

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="tahoma,verdana,arial" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Navigator7
[br]Yes...getting your male member sucked in the oval office, the First Lady outside the oval office window on the first lawn is IS sex. It's also treason!<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">That's an idea. Maybe haughty ol' George W Bush needs to get laid more. Then he could lie about his sex life instead of wasting tax dollars on a country full of "muslim radicals" in Iraq who are sure to turn against us if we don't keep paying their ransom.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="tahoma,verdana,arial" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
1. Is the following a fair summary of your stated beliefs
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="tahoma,verdana,arial" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">You said we should have learned from what occurred in Afghanistan back in the 1980's. I think you said we should have learned that people from that region of the world would turn on us, and therefore do not deserve our trust, support, or help. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Yes or no?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="tahoma,verdana,arial" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
No...not fair if you only good back to 1980.
Yes..is fair if you go back to the age when USA was formed.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

No and Yes? Hellllllooooo John Kerry. Come on dooowwwwwn. You're the next contestant on the flip is flop.

It's okay if you want to flip flop, because your record here on the forum is very clear. Your quote in the following answers the question for you.....

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="tahoma,verdana,arial" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">2. I asked about the <b>impact</b> of the events in 1980's Afghanistan on our goals? I asked only because you said in the 1980's we learned the following.....
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="tahoma,verdana,arial" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
"It's a fault we Americans have. Our word means something. The lesson is muslim rebels are not trustworthy. Their commitment to a cause or an ally changes as fast as a dogs commitment to a new master with food."<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
#2 is a bit more serious. Aside form the insults...where is the question?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">How many times and ways do I have to ask!? I just want to know if you think the lessons from 1980's Afghanistan can help us decide on the best path for Iraq. You dodge questions better than Bush and Clinton dodged drafts...combined!
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Postby Navigator7 » Mon Jan 15, 2007 11:29 pm

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="tahoma,verdana,arial" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by aturner
No and Yes? Hellllllooooo John Kerry. Come on dooowwwwwn. You're the next contestant on the flip is flop.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Mr aTurner,
If you are going to ask incomplete questions, expect incomplete answers.
By your standards.

Such as
"Are you still beating your wife?"

If you'd care to get reasonable again...I'd be happy to engage....but you are simply looking for a trophy without putting in the effort.

Flipflopmyass!

EDIT: You are trying to engineer an answer. Get real.
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