Let's start another debate here shall we?


Postby aturner » Sun Jan 28, 2007 9:43 pm

Nav, I think I asked you a very simple question. At least you and your forum bodyguard are consistent. When you fail to defend your position, you begin to attack me by labeling me a liberal and then whining about how the evil liberals.
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Postby Navigator7 » Sun Jan 28, 2007 10:11 pm

ATurner, If the Left can be awakened from the self-induced slumber to the the danger they are causing the country...that should be enough.
Leave it to you to twist this into a concentration camp. We'd all be lucky to get the same treatment from Radical Islam.

I didn't call you a liberal....I called you a very nice weather vane.

DR is not my body guard. He is consistent and he is in his right mind. I suspect he has values and a respect from where freedom comes from.

What the chances of reading your perspective on the war?
I'd like to take a few pot shots at your substantial views but I have no idea what they are!
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Postby BewareOfDog » Sun Jan 28, 2007 10:41 pm

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="tahoma,verdana,arial" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><b>Originally posted by aturner</b>
Nav, I think I asked you a very simple question. At least you and your forum bodyguard are consistent. When you fail to defend your position, you begin to attack me by labeling me a liberal and then whining about how the evil liberals.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

aturner,
You asked a simple question, and Navigator7 answered it.
Then, he asked you a question and you failed to respond with an answer.
Navigator7 has consistently defended his position by stating <b>why</b> the "liberal left" is the real enemy of this country.

You speak of the United States governement taxing the "common man" to death and then sending our sons to fight in places like 'Nam... Can you explain why the "common man" <b>has</b> to be taxed to death? Because I believe it is so the "uncommon man" can take a free ride... on the money generated... by taxing the common man to death!

(Who's gonna pay for food, housing, medical for all of the "uncommons" who cannot seem to do anything other than to bite the hand that feeds them... and spit out more "uncommons", who will eventually grow to bite the hand that feeds them?)

And don't forget to answer: "What the chances of reading your perspective on the war?"
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Postby brian the brain » Mon Jan 29, 2007 12:10 am

What do you think Bush should have done after 9/11?? Sit in his oval office and hope it won't happen again??
He struck back!He took away their home base of Afghanistan and then Iraq.
Or do you deny Al Quada is in Iraq??
Sure it's a mess right now, but it get's worse before it gets better.
At least he showed some balls!
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Postby BewareOfDog » Mon Jan 29, 2007 12:43 am

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="tahoma,verdana,arial" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><b>Originally posted by brian the brain</b>
...At least he showed some balls!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

<center><b>
:( No fair! ...Clinton had no balls, but only due to a freak accident!</b>

<img src="http://top.lourd.free.fr/truc/bill1.jpg">
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Postby aturner » Mon Jan 29, 2007 9:08 am

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="tahoma,verdana,arial" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">If the Left can be awakened from the self-induced slumber to the the danger they are causing the country...that should be enough.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">Nav, I have to give you some credit. That is the most straightforward and meaningful response you've EVER given on this forum. I would only point out that the recent congressional elections suggest that most of America is indeed waking from a slumber, and they are fed up with the War and the budget deficits we have seen under the Neo Con Bush leadership for the past 6 years. Now back to our usual programming......

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="tahoma,verdana,arial" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">What the chances of reading your perspective on the war?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">If you look back to page 1 of this topic, you will see what I think of this war right now.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="tahoma,verdana,arial" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
I'd like to take a few pot shots at your substantial views but I have no idea what they are!<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Really? So you don't recall the political discussions we've held for the past couple of years? Maybe you are loosing your memory in your old age. You have a very good idea where I stand, but the problem is you keep trying to push me further to the left than I really am.

Then we have this gem from a "brain"...
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="tahoma,verdana,arial" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
What do you think Bush should have done after 9/11?? Sit in his oval office and hope it won't happen again??
He struck back!He took away their home base of Afghanistan and then Iraq.
Or do you deny Al Quada is in Iraq??<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Perfect. So you are only about 5 years behind in your understanding of the "war on terror". Of course alQueda is in Iraq AFTER we toppled Saddam. Duh. Although Bush and his Neo Con cronies tried to link 9-11 to Iraq in their efforts to rally the US to war, it has now become very clear that there was never any connection between Saddam's Iraq and the people that were behind 9-11. I agree Saddam was an evil person, but that does not automatically make him our enemy in the war on terror versus al Quaeda.

If this were truly a "War on Terror", then we should have focused all of our military efforts on Afghanistan. Period.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="tahoma,verdana,arial" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Sure it's a mess right now, but it get's worse before it gets better.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Sure, just like the Russians had their asses waltzed right out of Afghanistan a couple of decades ago.

Of course, it's nice to see DR validate my statement about being Nav's bodyguard. It didn't take long for DR to come running to Nav's defense. But I gotta admit the dog photo is pretty funny!

And before we forget WHY Nav is on the defensive, let me remind everyone. Nav has been pushing his Wilsonian views, where he thinks the purpose of the US is to spread democracy. Fair enough. But the problem is Nav also thinks the people to whom we are spreading this democracy are going to turn on us because they are not loyal. I've simply asked him to reconcile this inconsistency. Shall I paste the quote again?
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Postby BewareOfDog » Mon Jan 29, 2007 1:51 pm

aturner,
I've already gotten the hint that you're against the idea of the United States occupying Iraq. - I've already gotten the hint that the you think that maybe now, the <b>only</b> reason <b>why </b> the al-Qaeda is in Iraq and recruiting new members... is because of our our invasion (you said "thanks" to our invasion)... And <b>that's</b>... "why".... we have to stay in Iraq.

You whine about me coming to Navigator7's defense, yet defend and even "admire" people who are complete pacifists, but agree that Protecting American civilians Protecting the American Way of life Promoting Liberty and freedom around the world, and US National Security is a requirement. (You replied: "No kidding.")

Then you go on to suggest that Navigator7 has "Wilsonian" views? But Wilson's views were more liberal than anything else, as he believed that global disarmament was the key to peace. Also, I highly doubt if Nav7 supports the idea of prohibition.

You've got me all wrong, as I'm certainly not running to Navigator7's defense. I'm merely joining in against someone who appears to be defending the political and religious position of "muslim rebels".

You agree that the purpose of the US is to spread democracy? (You answered: "Fair enough"). But you have a problem with someone who thinks that the people to whom we are spreading this democracy are going to turn on us because they are not loyal?

aturner, there are those (Iraqi's) who will welcome the United States intervention with open arms, because we have (temporarily) freed them from the abusive leadership of a dictator. - But how long will it be before some new (Iraqi) yahoo decides that the United States has no rightful place in his country? How long will it be before that yahoo convinces his brothers to bite the foreign hand that feeds them? It's happening here within our own borders.

You still have failed to directly answer my previous question. Is it because you're too busy worrying about me and Nav "picking" on you, or is it because <b>you</b> are the only <a href="http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/artfuldodger.htm">Artful Dodger</a> here?

- I don't want you to paste your quote again! - How's about just answerin' the damn question?

Edit: typos.
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Postby aturner » Mon Jan 29, 2007 3:10 pm

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="tahoma,verdana,arial" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by DR
[br]- I don't want you to paste your quote again! - How's about just answerin' the damn question?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Exactly. How about it?
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Postby BewareOfDog » Mon Jan 29, 2007 3:40 pm

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="tahoma,verdana,arial" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><b>Originally posted by aturner</b>
Originally posted by DR
- I don't want you to paste your quote again! - How's about just answerin' the damn question?


<b>Exactly. How about it?</b>
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Well then, I guess that you're just a combination of an <a href="http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/ideologue.htm">Ideologue</a> and a <a href="http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/ferouscranus.htm">Ferrous Cranus</a>
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Postby aturner » Mon Jan 29, 2007 4:36 pm

Yes DR, you've got me pegged.

And you are still resorting to the only viable tool at your disposal. When folks like you and Nav fail to win an argument, you resort to name calling, labels, etc. I believe this tactic would be known as an "ad hominem" attack, and you are a master at it.

So, how's the weather in Utah? Wilsonian?
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