Let's start another debate here shall we?


Postby BewareOfDog » Tue Jan 16, 2007 3:48 am

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="tahoma,verdana,arial" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><b>Originally posted by aturner</b>
How many times and ways do I have to ask!? I just want to know if you think the lessons from 1980's Afghanistan can help us decide on the best path for Iraq?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

"Bush took 14 months of pleading with the UN to force Iraq to live up to it's post Gulf War agreement to rid itself of WMD, etc.

Hardly a rush to war and the delay gave Saddam time to hide or remove to other countries the WMDs that we knew he had or was in the process of acquiring". - quoted from an excerpt on this page: <a href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2006/09/12/do1202.xml"> Stop blaming America for terrorism</a>

The United States was trying to keep Western Europe free from Soviet domination. We have idly sat by, these past 20-someodd years, threatening to invade Iraq if they did not comply with the agreement that ended the Gulf War.

The best path for Iraq cannot be decided by a group of people who believe that dying as a martyr will ensure you entry into heaven.

The best path cannot be decided by the United States, who's real goal is not only to keep a nation from "amassing" biological and nuclear weapons, but also to keep communistic governments from controlling the oil fields.

All that we've learned over the past years that you cannot make idle threats. There are way too many people (all over the world) that perceive the U.S. as the big bad wolf. But I see just the opposite. So do we make our house out of straw, or do we make it out of reinforced concrete?

I'm sure we could easily "huff and puff and blow <b>the [intercourse]ing shit out of the entire contry</b>" but then everyone (the rest of the world) would make their house out of reinforced concrete.

We fight with one arm tied behind our back, as the other arm is busy writing pleas to the UN.
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Postby Navigator7 » Tue Jan 16, 2007 11:19 am

Well said DR!

Also...there was the 12 or 13 lines in the sand the UN used to "force" Saddam to follow the will of the world.

All this during the clinton saga. It was suggested by some that Saddam was somehow being advised of the UN's movements....and while they were coming in the front door Saddam's goons were bailing out the back door with who knows what.
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Postby brian the brain » Thu Jan 18, 2007 1:49 pm

I'm not sure I, being a foreigner here, should speak.
On 9/11 America sure didn't feel like a foreign country to me.
In the next days I watched some guy holding up a sign in NY. It said NUKE THE BASTARDS!!
I couldn't agree more at the time.
Bush did the right thing.Mess with the bull you get the horns!!
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Postby aturner » Thu Jan 18, 2007 2:48 pm

Who do you think we should give "the horns" to?

Problem is, Al Qaeda does not have a return address.

And more to the point, what should we do going forward? Pay the ransom to an ineffective government in Iraq?
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Postby spuzi14 » Thu Jan 18, 2007 3:36 pm

This isn't my debate but I think it's a good idea for foreigners to voice their opinion on a matter like this. It's like a view from outside the box which some people definetly need.
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Postby UnheardWhispers » Sat Jan 27, 2007 8:18 pm

And to furthur the situation, Bush has asked Congress for another $12 billon to furthur the war effort. That is just ridiculous.

But, I don't think we should clear out and ship everyone home. The Iraqi government is already on a very tight rope, if we left they would fall apart. Terrorists would spread, Shiites/Sunnis would wipe each other out, and everything would fall apart.

..We need to ease out, little by little.


Edit: removed signature - too large.
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Postby Navigator7 » Sun Jan 28, 2007 10:57 am

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="tahoma,verdana,arial" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by spuzi14
[br]This isn't my debate but I think it's a good idea for foreigners to voice their opinion on a matter like this. It's like a view from outside the box which some people definetly need.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
We don't need more views..we need statesmen who act.

There are two wars going on in this country.

Whatever Bush did yesterday or tomorrow is peanuts compared to what the Left is doing to America on a daily basis!

I'm quite comfortable with my position the Liberal Left is guilty of treason and is directly responsible for American soldier deaths, prolonging the war and aiding and abetting the enemy.

From the inside cover of the book , The Enemy At Home.....The Cultural Left and it's Responsibility for 911 (just came to my door) Dinesh D'Souza

"".....Only this war is not being waged by Christian Conservatives bent on a moral crusade to impose democracy abroad but by the American cultural left, which for years has been vigorously exporting its domestic war against religion and traditional morality to the rest of the world.

D'Souza contends that the cultural left is responsible for 911 in two ways:
o By fostering decadent and depraved American culture (read Hollywood) that angers and repulses other societies.- Especially traditional and religious ones.
o And by promoting at home and abroad, (Read Liberalism) an anti-American attitude that blames America for all the problems of the world.""""

""""....It is not "America" doing this to them. it is the American cultural left. What traditional societies consider repulsive and immoral, the cultural left considers progressive and liberating""""

<b>"""""......Conservatives must recognize that the left is now allied with the Islamic radicals in a combined effort to defeat Bush's war on terror! A whole new strategy is therefore needed to fight BOTH wars. 'In order to defeat the Islamic Radicals abroad, D'Souza writes, 'we must defeat the enemy at home."""""</b>

I agree with D'Souza...but this has been my position since Bush 41 in Kuwait.
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Postby aturner » Sun Jan 28, 2007 12:27 pm

So, how does D'Souza propose "defeating" the "enemy" at home? Round them all up into concentration camps?

And meanwhile, Nav wants to save the very folks who he says will eventually turn against us:
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="tahoma,verdana,arial" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
"It's a fault we Americans have. Our word means something. The lesson is muslim rebels are not trustworthy. Their commitment to a cause or an ally changes as fast as a dogs commitment to a new master with food."<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
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Postby Navigator7 » Sun Jan 28, 2007 1:42 pm

Deja Vue....Must be an aturner post again?
Where's the beef, dude?

aTurner, do you have the capacity to be on any side but where the wind blows?
You remind me of an expensive, first class, Bob Villa installed, copper weather vane .....and just as useful.

You are very quick to criticize but offer no perspective or substance. Get on the ball and make a point!

Don't agree with me...as it gets too boring but yet challenge my claims with something of substance. Damn.

I've just associated the Left with terrorism. Where are the whines and snivels? I have an "unpopular" point of view. Unpopular doesn't mean wrong. It means unpopular. History decides right or wrong.

The Left is calling the man who is defending this nation against terrorism Amerika's Dictator.....but really...all the Left is accomplishing is aiding and abetting the enemy. The Left has shown cold blooded cowardice...as if they somehow will find protection from radical Islam when they nuke LA..... What do they think? Only Christian Conservative assholes like me will die?
When the throat slitting begins....only the cowards will be spared?

The byproduct of the freedom, privileges and quality of life we have enjoyed since WW2 is Liberalism, which then corrodes the very anchors of society and threatens our way of life.

Aturner, what is your solution? Surrender?
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Postby BewareOfDog » Sun Jan 28, 2007 5:24 pm

I have to agree with Navigator7 on this one;
The "liberal left" expects every American to do the following:

<li>Denounce the existence of God, or any god, for that matter. Follow the trend toward doing whatever feels good for you, with no thought or care for long existing moral values. - Which leads us to:
Same-sex marriages, abortion and life-long imprisonment (as opposed to capitol punishment)</li>

<li>Make it illegal for any American citizen to legally own any type of firearm, whether it be for recreation or defense.</li>

<li>Open our borders to any and all immigrants. -No need to worry about passports or visas, as we will feed & house & clothe you, as well as provide you with medical and dental benefits.</li>

<li>Draw lines in the sand against organizations who commit terrorist acts, until your stick wears down to a nub - and then replace the stick.</li>

Little to no moral values, no firearms, free rides, open borders and no involvement in any type of war... for any reason. Sounds like a safe and secure place to me.
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