Let's start another debate here shall we?


Postby An Appple Pie » Thu Feb 01, 2007 1:14 pm

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="tahoma,verdana,arial" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Navigator7
Everybody notice the name calling here? Two big bad words are used against me!

Let's see... I'm a hypocrite? Would that be like shouting down the war in Iraq in the street and then going to cash my welfare check? Or like Kerry, "I voted for the war before I voted against it!"
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
No, that's not hypocrisy. Hypocrisy isn't being anti-war and pro-welfare. It's not having the will to admit you were wrong at first or that you have made mistakes. Hypocrisy, for example, is when you shun the media for being biased, and then you turn around and cite your own obviously biased opinions and book authors.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="tahoma,verdana,arial" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Can you materialize any facts to counter me ...or dig up any evidence that suggests the Left is not a threat to American society?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
I can't "materialize facts." At least not like you seem to be able to.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="tahoma,verdana,arial" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">o America is not in the wrong. America's problems are caused by....

The American Left!

It should be as easy as an Appple falling from a tree to counter and stick up for Liberalism?

Where am I wrong?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

You can't just say that and then make me try to prove you otherwise.

I doubt there is much information available pertaining to how the liberal left <i>isn't</i> a threat to America, and I'm not at a low enough level to start making up things about the conservative right's harmful effect on America.

Do you have any valid, unbiased articles or statistics that relate to the US' situation in Iraq that blame Liberals? Remember, that is what we are trying to talk about here. Not illegal immigration or health care.
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Postby Navigator7 » Thu Feb 01, 2007 3:24 pm

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="tahoma,verdana,arial" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by An Appple Pie
No, that's not hypocrisy. Hypocrisy isn't being anti-war and pro-welfare. It's not having the will to admit you were wrong at first or that you have made mistakes. Hypocrisy, for example, is when you shun the media for being biased, and then you turn around and cite your own obviously biased opinions and book authors. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

I have will, I'm not wrong, I have made mistakes, I claim my christian conservative bias freely and it's not productive to cite liberal opinion or books because...as Reagan said..
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="tahoma,verdana,arial" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant: It's just that they know so much that isn't so."

- Ronald Reagan<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="tahoma,verdana,arial" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">You can't just say that and then make me try to prove you otherwise~Appple<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
LMAO!!!! You funny.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="tahoma,verdana,arial" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I doubt there is much information available pertaining to how the liberal left isn't a threat to America, and I'm not at a low enough level to start making up things about the conservative right's harmful effect on America.~Appple<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Tom Tancredo, congressman, Colorado wrote a book, In Mortal Danger. He is a conservative. Says this:
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="tahoma,verdana,arial" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">English historian Edward Gibbon, in penning his classic "The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire" (ironically published in the year America's Founding Fathers declared independence from Great Britain), theorized that Rome fell because it rotted from within.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
I say the same....Liberalism is a rotting from within.
A lot of people are making good money writing books about Liberalism becoming the death of America.
Err America...The Liberal Voice to counter conservative talk cannot pay it's bills. Reason...who wants to hear it?

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="tahoma,verdana,arial" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Do you have any valid, unbiased articles or statistics that relate to the US' situation in Iraq that blame Liberals? Remember, that is what we are trying to talk about here. Not illegal immigration or health care.~Appple<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Do I have any? Heck Yes!
Valid? All
Unbiased? How in heavens name can you write an unbiased article? (That's just like the liberal rule you can't racial profile for a terrorist boarding a plane!)
What the liberal media does is deny their bias....This is the problem I have with them.

<a href="http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=19525">This Guy used to work for the Liberal Left and now he makes his money telling the Truth about Them</a>

Dick Morris:
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="tahoma,verdana,arial" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Morris: Hillary will be ‘worst president we’ve ever seen’
Dick Morris is no fan of Sen. Hillary Clinton, having spent much of the past decade writing and speaking out against her. And he took his always-quotable opinions to the offices of Americans for Tax Reform Wednesday at a breakfast sponsored by The American Spectator.

Dick’s greatest hits:

» Although Barack Obama is an “exciting phenomenon,â€Â
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Postby spuzi14 » Thu Feb 01, 2007 4:19 pm

Not that I'm authority but Appple and Nav, give it up! This a discussion not a "bash Nav because he's different" thread. I haven't been able to post in this thread because there's a shit slinging contest going on. But now, I'm posting (ohh-wee look at spuzi, he's a rebel[:p])

So this war...I was thinking since we were talking about guerilla tactics in history today and realized, why aren't we fighting with guerilla tactics? Obviously that's sort of tough since that's like a game of hide and go seek where everybody hides and nobody seeks. Eventually the dumber seeking side will make a move and then the opposite seeking side (us) can make a move. I guess this is like fighting fire with fire. Is there a reason we can't use this method of war?
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Postby Mr.Plow » Thu Feb 01, 2007 4:26 pm

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="tahoma,verdana,arial" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Is there a reason we can't use this method of war?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Well, from a tactical perspective, we can't because they have the "home field advantage." Then again, I suppose tactics like Capt. Kurtz' in "Apocalypse Now" could be effective. Of course, if we did that there'd be a huge complaint that "we're just like the enemy! We've gotta be better than them!" (which is leftist BS, too)

Also, the tactics the enemy now use are focused on civilian targets. They want instability. That's no exactly what we want, you know [:p]
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Postby An Appple Pie » Thu Feb 01, 2007 5:25 pm

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="tahoma,verdana,arial" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Navigator7</i><blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="tahoma,verdana,arial" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by An Appple Pie</i>
No, that's not hypocrisy. Hypocrisy isn't being anti-war and pro-welfare. It's not having the will to admit you were wrong at first or that you have made mistakes. Hypocrisy, for example, is when you shun the media for being biased, and then you turn around and cite your own obviously biased opinions and book authors. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

I have will, I'm not wrong, I have made mistakes, I claim my christian conservative bias freely and it's not productive to cite liberal opinion or books because...as Reagan said..
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="tahoma,verdana,arial" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant: It's just that they know so much that isn't so."

- Ronald Reagan<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote"><hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
First, I'm not sure if you caught that I was referring to Kerry in that third sentence (not you).

I still find it strange that you dismiss alternate opinions while refusing to consider the possibility that your own opinions might be distorted or exaggerated (and trust me, they are). I really don't have much else to say, because again, all you are doing is quoting subjective conservative opinions, without considering the objective truth. Both sides of the scale are off balance, Navigator. You're not any better than a left-wing liberal.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="tahoma,verdana,arial" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="tahoma,verdana,arial" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">You can't just say that and then make me try to prove you otherwise~Appple<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
LMAO!!!! You funny.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Well, it's true. Have you ever listened to children argue before?
"I'm right!"
"No, I'm right!"

How else do you expect me to respond?

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="tahoma,verdana,arial" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="tahoma,verdana,arial" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I doubt there is much information available pertaining to how the liberal left isn't a threat to America, and I'm not at a low enough level to start making up things about the conservative right's harmful effect on America.~Appple<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Tom Tancredo, congressman, Colorado wrote a book, In Mortal Danger. He is a conservative. Says this:
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="tahoma,verdana,arial" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">English historian Edward Gibbon, in penning his classic "The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire" (ironically published in the year America's Founding Fathers declared independence from Great Britain), theorized that Rome fell because it rotted from within.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
I say the same....Liberalism is a rotting from within.
A lot of people are making good money writing books about Liberalism becoming the death of America.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
You asked me to provide evidence as to how the Liberal left isn't hurting America. I said it would be hard to find information that says the liberals AREN'T a threat. That's because no one is going to write a book or an article that says something ISN'T in danger or causing harm. That doesn't bring in money.

Speaking of money, couldn't you easily accuse the large, monopolizing corporations of America of the exact same things as liberals? In fact, I think that would make more sense. Maybe you can help me write a book about it. ;)

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="tahoma,verdana,arial" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="tahoma,verdana,arial" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Do you have any valid, unbiased articles or statistics that relate to the US' situation in Iraq that blame Liberals? Remember, that is what we are trying to talk about here. Not illegal immigration or health care.~Appple<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Do I have any? Heck Yes!
Valid? All
Unbiased? How in heavens name can you write an unbiased article?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
You can write an unbiased article if it is based on FACTS! While I'll admit some things will be judged subjectively by different people, there is at least some basis of truth in the world that can be reported on. Not everything goes through a truth-filter before it reaches America.

But sometimes the easiest way to find this is to compare two articles on the same story and assume the truth is somewhere in the middle. Avoid obvious liberal and conservative action groups' statistics. And start considering other opinions, Navigator. I consider your opinion as one reason for the world's distaste in American culture, however it couldn't be the one and only reason that we were attacked. Otherwise a lot of liberal European countries would be underwater right now from self-rotting and terrorist bombardments.

And not to stir up what we are talking about now, but for the second time, I'd like to get back on the OP topic of discussion, Iraq.
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Postby Navigator7 » Thu Feb 01, 2007 10:54 pm

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="tahoma,verdana,arial" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by An Appple Pie
And start considering other opinions, Navigator. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

That was a really long post before you wrote something of interest.

Do you think for one minute I don't listen to the Liberal Left!
I debate people wherever I go.
I love it when Liberals call me names...which is usually quickly.....because they are out of gas and nothing to back them up. Liberalism is an empty suitcase.
The shock in their face is priceless!

I consider the opinions of liberals to be so desperately lacking in value and content...that, in fact, doing exactly what you suggest has led me to this sordid state.

Regarding Iraq...is it possible clinton didn't rise to the Iraq occasion during his two terms so as to leave his "Legacy" unblemished?

cough cough
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Postby An Appple Pie » Sat Feb 03, 2007 3:09 pm

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="tahoma,verdana,arial" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Navigator7
[br]<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="tahoma,verdana,arial" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by An Appple Pie
And start considering other opinions, Navigator. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

That was a really long post before you wrote something of interest.

Do you think for one minute I don't listen to the Liberal Left!
I debate people wherever I go.
I love it when Liberals call me names...which is usually quickly.....because they are out of gas and nothing to back them up. Liberalism is an empty suitcase.
The shock in their face is priceless!

I consider the opinions of liberals to be so desperately lacking in value and content...that, in fact, doing exactly what you suggest has led me to this sordid state.

Regarding Iraq...is it possible clinton didn't rise to the Iraq occasion during his two terms so as to leave his "Legacy" unblemished?

cough cough
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Wait, so you are saying that we are in this mess in Iraq now because Clinton didn't do the same thing earlier? That doesn't make any sense. Unless you care to explain "rise to the Iraq occasion" a little bit better, I'm going to have to assume that is what you're implying.

You've still yet to explain <i>why</i> you think "Liberalism is an empty suitcase" or why liberal opinions are "lacking in value." You haven't even explained to me what your actual opinion on the matter is. You've just been blaming liberals the whole time. So stop telling me to prove you wrong and start proving yourself right, Navigator. I've called you out on enough ridiculous claims (and have been trying to get the discussion about what to do in Iraq NOW back on track) for this debate to have ended days ago, but you just keep throwing out exaggerated metaphors and basically bragging about how biased you are. You're as much of an empty suitcase as Liberalism is.
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