SpudFiles

(This only applies to anyone is the U.S.)

Well i though about joining rocketry club at my school, and i talked to him about the hobby that we all participate in here, and he told me that the ATF considers anything that uses a explosive to propel something, a firearm.

So i did some research on the ATF website and i got a direct quote of this:

"The GCA, 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(3), defines the term “firearm” to include the following:
“…(A) any weapon (including a starter gun) which will or is designed to or may be readily
converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive: (B) the frame or receiver of any
such weapon; (C) any firearm muffler or silencer; or (D) any destructive device. Such term does
not include an antique firearm."

So since propane creates an explosion (and i guess can be a explosive) wouldn't any combustion guns be considered a firearm by the ATF?

I think it has to have a certain muzzle volicity to be considered a firearm.

Eh... I'd say the words "destructive device" would cover any cannon whose owner they wished to have a hard time.

If you want to be sure about being legally safe , check with your police department because it's them that'd turn up.

jrrdw wrote:I think it has to have a certain muzzle volicity to be considered a firearm.

I think only solid fuelled, non muzzle loading cannons/rifles/etc count as firearms by US law, although state laws may differ... but I'm no expert, don't hold me to that.

Well there has to be something because we all see youtube videos of spray n prays and propane combustions and i havent heard anything from the ATF so i wonder what it is thats ok with them.

I think the term explosion is used technically, which means that combustions are ok because they deflagrate, not explode.

Pilgrimman wrote:I think the term explosion is used technically, which means that combustions are ok because they deflagrate, not explode.

All firearms deflagrate - M-16, Barrett, AK 47 - it's all deflagration.

However, the ATF has cleared spudguns:

ATF wrote:We have previously examined that certain muzzle loading devices known as "potato guns." These potato guns are constructed from PVC plastic tubing. They use hair spray or a similar aerosol substance for a propellant, and have some type of spark ignitor. We have determined that these devices, as described, are not firearms provided that they are used solely for launching potatoes for recreational purposes. However, any such devices which are used as weapons or used to launch other forms of projectiles may be firearms and destructive devices as defined.

Looking at it again, probably because of this clause:

The law wrote:The term 'destructive device' shall not include any device which is neither designed nor redesigned for use as a weapon

http://www.spudfiles.com/forums/viewtop ... 3324#13324 , read that, PCGUY sent a letter to the ATF, and it will tell you that they are legal.

blind909 wrote:http://www.spudfiles.com/forums/viewtop ... 3324#13324 , read that, PCGUY sent a letter to the ATF, and it will tell you that they are legal.

No he didn't;)

Ragnarok wrote:...the ATF has cleared spudguns:

ATF wrote:We have previously examined that certain muzzle loading devices known as "potato guns." These potato guns are constructed from PVC plastic tubing. They use hair spray or a similar aerosol substance for a propellant, and have some type of spark ignitor. We have determined that these devices, as described, are not firearms provided that they are used solely for launching potatoes for recreational purposes. However, any such devices which are used as weapons or used to launch other forms of projectiles may be firearms and destructive devices as defined.

As long as it fires only potatoes and they hit no one or thing that isn't yours they're cleared. They're not ruling out the firearm and destructive device tag, just keeping it handy to dump on anyone that does something unwanted.

The term 'destructive device' shall not include any device which is neither designed nor redesigned for use as a weapon

That pretty much sums it up right there. Currently, most things that we would call a "spudgun" are pretty much legal in the States, which makes the situation there a lot different than most places in the world. Give them a few years though, I'm sure they'll do something about that...

DYI wrote: Give them a few years though, I'm sure they'll do something about that...

Decades maybe?

Ah ok thanks for clearing that up for me. So now i can prove my rocketry team leader wrong (who is also a teacher).

So that means i will still build a hybrid, but not for a while.

frankrede wrote:

blind909 wrote:http://www.spudfiles.com/forums/viewtop ... 3324#13324 , read that, PCGUY sent a letter to the ATF, and it will tell you that they are legal.

No he didn't;)

Im sorry, A friend of his did.