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air nailer (to concrete)

Unread postPosted: Sun May 06, 2007 9:17 pm
Author: spudthug
ok well my mom has this friend that is a contractor and i build crap with him allot and he lets me use his tools if im not at my dads or my dads shop.. so needs a nailer that can fasten a 2x4 to concrete.. he has one that uses those blank .22 cal to drive the nail but those blanks for it get to costing alot when u are a contractor.. so he told me had give me $300 usd if i made him a pneumatic nailer to nail 2x4's to he knows a guy from bostich and if this is good enough he was talking about getting a patent for it but ill not go into that.. so what i need ur help on..

it needs to be co-axial and it is going to be out of metal pipe

1. what size should the chamber be so it isnt to big and what is a good durable piston that i can use for it

2. how would i get the nail down the barrel where the piston seals.. i mean he has an industrial compressor that has a huge as tank on it and is like 150 psi but how far would the nail have to be into a barrel for it to go into concrete at like a 100-140 psi pressure...

3. i was thinking of having like 12 inches of barrel sticking out the front and having a breech mech right where the barrel started to come out of the chamber...i need ideas on a breech loader

4. what should i use to port it..i think i am going to use a blowgun and i probly will but if its a big chamber ill use a ball valve.

5. it kinda needs to not weigh very much so i am goign to try to get some aluminum.. is it good to use aluminum at high pressure? it would probly be thick.. and it has to be sort of not bulky..

i was planning on using a sort of big diameter chamber so it could be shorter but that gives the piston less room.. is this practical?

ok i got a basic design ill psot a diagram in the morning its 10:30 here im tired ill check back and psot in morning.. someone please help..

Unread postPosted: Sun May 06, 2007 9:34 pm
Author: goathunter
Well for that you'll have to actually "hit" the nail with something to get it to go into concrete.Use a piston valve to fire and then a second "piston" in the barrel to hit the nail and drive it.Good luck man

Unread postPosted: Sun May 06, 2007 9:46 pm
Author: origin unknown

Unread postPosted: Sun May 06, 2007 9:50 pm
Author: rad14701
I think pneumatic nail guns have already been patented... A quick Google search located one at ... 26762.html which states in the details that it works on concrete, and costs less that $300... You can also get concrete nails for them too... Your moms friends friend from Bostitch needs to learn a bit about patent law before sending you off on a wild goose chase... Oh yeah, ... &ProdID=78 shows that Bostitch already has at least one too... Sorry to burst your bubble...

Unread postPosted: Sun May 06, 2007 9:50 pm
Author: Hotwired
A fat cylinder that whacks a much smaller metal rod down (for greater force) onto the nail head methinks.

But you would need something rather bigger than a blank nail gun if you're wanting to get a nail to fix 2x4's to concrete with compressed air.

Unread postPosted: Sun May 06, 2007 9:51 pm
Author: jackssmirkingrevenge
A nailer is basically an exhaust valve co-axial:

Unread postPosted: Sun May 06, 2007 11:14 pm
Author: MrCrowley
unless you make one awesome coax I would go for a different desgin due to the fact of breech loading. It can be done with a coax but its difficult.

Unread postPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 12:01 am
Author: ammosmoke
It looks to me like you need to have a piston chamber that is long and wide. I would try using a light, but relatively strong metal for the piston, so it goes fast, (maybe 6061 aluminum?) but high grade steel for the pin, as it seems like the most likely part to fail. You would probably want to make sure that all of the tubes are larger than normal, and that your valves dump super quick. Dual blow guns linked to a single trigger maybe?

Edit: To add blowback, you would need a big, reliable spring around the pin... A good AEG airsoft one should do...

You can find one here...

Edit: This may get a little on the heavy side, maybe you should design an ergonomic wrist brace? Im not joking...

Edit: (again) This is a concept I came up with for the piston/nail striking part. Hope this helps...


Unread postPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 5:52 am
Author: spudthug
think pneumatic nail guns have already been patented...

yes but not pneumatic ones to fasten a 2x4 to concrete...
which states in the details that it works on concrete, and costs less that $300...

works on concrete...doesnt fasten wood to concrete.. and the nails are probably like 1 inch nails for that gun..these are huge

Your moms friends friend from Bostitch needs to learn a bit about patent law before sending you off on a wild goose chase

my moms freind isnt from bostich. my moms freind helps me out alot and his freind is from bostich.. and bostich doesnt have a concrete gun.. they have plenty of nail guns but not one like this...

so rad i hope u look at this because u were wrong on everything...

aside from that...

well he wanted to see if i could do it with a pneumatic because it would be cheaper and i told him i dont know if i would be able to make it powerful enough...

it needs to be a small gun, which is why i chose co-axial.

he wanted to try to make it pneumatic like the whole way, can i make on that is powerful enough?

EDIT: ammosmoke how thehell would that work.. when u pulled the blowguns the piston would comeback not go would need reversed like a big coaxial with the barrel welded into the second chamber where that pin and psito nwould be located so when the first coaxial went off the air would go out the barrel and put the piston up in the second chamber alowing for the nail to get hit and pushed in..

btw that would be bulky as hell so im not doing it..

Unread postPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 8:37 am
Author: jackssmirkingrevenge
that blowgun isn't going to cut it, you need a much quicker opening valve - at least a large modded sprinkler valve.

Unread postPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 9:27 am
Author: demilus
If I was you, I would go with all metal construction, and use regulated CO2. You could even go so far as to get a 5 lb CO2 tank to carry around. This would allow much higher pressures.
Higher pressure = more force

This design is by no means complete or perfected, but it's at least a start. The chamber and such could be shifted around so that it is more compact. At, say 300 psi, I think that it owuld drive a nail into concrete. Good luck! Hope you succeed!

Unread postPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 10:47 am
Author: ammosmoke
How would it work? Well, first off, this is only the part that strikes the nail, not the entire thing. There would be a nail clip below it that this setup would hit... If you look at a nailgun, the nails slide down spring loaded groove suspended by the head. When the nail reaches the end there is a hole large enough for the nail to go through head and all. The spring in the clip should be strong enough to keep the nail suspended by pressure.. And the spring would NOT push the piston back up, it is only to reset the piston position. It is weak enough, or should be, to be overcome by the pressure. Like a blowback gun, gosh. And it would not need a barrel.... maybe a half circle at the end of the clip at most. It would not be too bulky... this is basically what jacks posted above. This is pretty much how most of them work, but simpler. Ya, a blowgun prob isn't enough, it was just an example.

Unread postPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 12:01 pm
Author: Freefall
So Bostitch has nail guns for lots of purposes, from tacks to framing nails, and even some that will drive nails into concrete.

But they don't have one that will drive a nail through wood and into concrete?
The link provided by rad14701 shows a gun that will do wood-to-concrete. True, it says that the 2.5" nails are recommended for wood-to-wood only, but that's because they're not hardened, while the shorter nails are. You can attach a 2x4 to concrete with the 2-1/8 hardened nails, as a 2x4 is only 1.5" thick.

If you want to drive longer hardened nails, you'll need a stronger nailgun.

You can't patent something that is "The same, only bigger".

Unread postPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 1:35 pm
Author: ammosmoke
Then how, do you think, companies come out with new air guns and drills and whatever else that is basically the same as the competition? All airguns are basically the same, but they all have something slightly different. Is this a patent violation? NO.

Unread postPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 4:29 pm
Author: rad14701
I don't know why I even bother trying to help you dumb-shits out...!!! Who the hell would simply drive a nail into concrete without having it first go through wood... Start searching the internet and find out the real facts and you'll find that I was, in fact, correct... I'm a fully grown man, not some mamma's boy that helps his mamma's friend... I see far too many posts in these forums where people who don't know crap about anything start postulating their ego driven ideas and, to be quite honest, you're just stupid freakin idiots... I have better things to do with my time than to be corrected by a bunch of snot-nosed idiots... Figure things out for yourselves... Oh, but you already know everything...