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Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:04 am
by SPG
Yeah I tried Google but didn't know seem to turn anything up. I'll try again, perhaps with the name, can't be that many "Sages" can there?
Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:13 am
by jackssmirkingrevenge
SPG wrote:perhaps with the name, can't be that many "Sages" can there?
I'm guessing that's a pseudonym though.
Edit: found
this, not what we were looking for but nonetheless cool
Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 9:16 am
by POLAND_SPUD
@jsr how does a hammer solenoid valve work?
and what do you mean by
Spools are the new BFV wrote
Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 9:25 am
by jackssmirkingrevenge
POLAND_SPUD wrote:how does a hammer solenoid valve work?
Just like an ordinary hammer valve, but instead of the hammer beind driven by a spring, it's driven by a solenoid.
...and what do you mean by "Spools are the new BFV"
Just kidding about the way you've been going on about spool valves ever since you got one
Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 9:41 am
by POLAND_SPUD
@jsr
Just kidding about the way you've been going on about spool valves ever since you got one
uhmm I kind of figured out it myself.. but still I don't know what 'BFV' mean?
and...... hey they are brilliant...
just buy one and have some fun playing with it (before you ask... '
have some fun with it' doesn't mean what you think it does')
Hmm I've never seen a solenoid hammer valve... I assume they are used on the drozd??
are they off the shelf parts ?? if they aren't this means that they have to be build... and suddenly the word 'machining' comes into mind....
EDIT
engrish
Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 10:05 am
by jackssmirkingrevenge
POLAND_SPUD wrote:but still I don't know what does 'BFV' mean?
Blow Forward Valve
and...... hey they are brilliant...
just buy one and have some fun with it playing with it (before you ask... '
have some fun with it' doesn't mean what you think it does')
I was looking them up on ebay the other day
Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 10:39 pm
by jackssmirkingrevenge
We have a reply from the designer, no beans have been spilled and if he's interested in a commercial patent, it is of course understandable.
Thank you for your interest in the Ajax X177; I sincerely appreciate the positive feedback!
Yes, the cloud/vortex type guns (while still fun in their own right) have lots of drawbacks (including the non-adjustable, dynamically determined, and undesirably high ROF, high air consumption rates, low efficiencies, lack of select-fire capability, etc., etc.).
I visited the spudfiles forum some time ago but haven't in quite awhile (so I'm not sure what's happening there these days). I'll swing by again...
In short, we're looking into releasing the plans for the Ajax X177 version seen on the video; the response has been quite positive but the concern is how best to protect the plan contents from overzealous posters/bloggers. No one (least of all me!) wants to spend any time doing legal rundowns for violation of non-disclosures, etc. This is part of the reason why the plans are not yet available.
Along those lines, I'd very much love to share the design aspects but I'm also bound to certain non-disclosures. I recently completed a FAQ which answers some questions; it should be up within the next week or two if I can get it cleared.
As far as your assessment of the mechanism, I can say that several Ajax versions have been built using hammer-based and/or blow-back systems. We found that these are indeed reasonable (generally if built with high tolerance), but they are somewhat limited in flexibility (for instance, firing rate and power) especially in the purely mechanical systems because of the action's coupling to the projectile motion and gas dynamics. Additionally (and depending on the implementation) they can exhibit relatively low air efficiencies if not built well, so for a low-cost/low tolerance build they become somewhat more difficult to implement effectively. As you are undoubtedly aware, both the Casleman and the Drozd are hammer-based (the Casleman is mechanical, the Drozd electro-mechanical); the Ajax X177 variant seen on the video uses a different system. Although it is possible to implement a hammer-based valve in the Ajax (as mentioned, I have done so on some models), the valve system I opted for here was simpler to build (at least in my experience after building hundreds of valve systems).
I think though if he's only going to sell plans it's going to be difficult to keep the design a secret, at the very least it will be a legal hassle, but good luck to him.
Hmm I've never seen a solenoid hammer valve... I assume they are used on the drozd??
are they off the shelf parts ?? if they aren't this means that they have to be build... and suddenly the word 'machining' comes into mind....
Not quite off the shelf but there are for example
solenoid powered nailguns (click the trigger to operate
) that could provide cheap parts.
Aside from the Drozd, there's the
Harper Wolf pistol and
Daystaterifles that use a solenoid hammer coupled to a capacitor,
have a look.
Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 8:13 am
by SPG
Soo looks like we either, wait for the plans and buy some, or wait for the patent to emerge.
Or of course buy a whole gun.
Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 8:29 am
by jackssmirkingrevenge
SPG wrote:Soo looks like we either, wait for the plans and buy some, or wait for the patent to emerge.
Sounds like there'll be a legal clause to keep it to yourself though
Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 8:35 am
by SPG
And Jack I would of course do just that. Although I think that's nigh on impossible to enforce, I would guess with plans all you could do was prevent redistribution of the plan itself, but not of a basic explanation of how it works.
After all if you purchased the real thing you could just take it apart to show people.
Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 10:25 am
by POLAND_SPUD
nailguns are the new BFV wrote:for example solenoid powered nailguns that could provide cheap parts.
ohhh let me guess you want it to shoot pennies and you're going to use epoxy !! (sorry... I couldn't resist)
still I don't think that the overal price & reliability is going to be lower than for a 1/4" spool valve (mind you that it can be easily scraped and reused for new projects) I know that the words 'servicability' and 'threaded parts' are new to you.. I've noticed some inmprovment in your recent creations.. but still there is a lot of space for improvment
I suppose that the gun might be build around a BBMG hopper or a similar system..... well whatever, if it isn't - it most likely uses a BFB...
one way or another it shouldn't be that difficult to build a gun with a similar performance using a spoolvalve as the main valve and a hopper...
Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 11:06 am
by SPG
I'm beginning to think there's a need here for someone to go to Spool Valves Anonymous.
Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 11:58 am
by POLAND_SPUD
nahhh I am not exaggerating they are simply cool
Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 1:59 pm
by jackssmirkingrevenge
POLAND_SPUD wrote:one way or another it shouldn't be that difficult to build a gun with a similar performance using a spoolvalve as the main valve and a hopper...
You'd still need a way to cycle the spool valve if you want automatic fire though, but I agree that it's a good idea for a semi.
Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 3:20 pm
by SPG
Jackie boy, seeing as how you brought the solenoid nail gun up, what about this for a solenoid gun?
I reckon if the solenoid is strong enough to drive a nail in it'd be strong enough to open a valve even against gas pressure which you'd get with this set up. The idea is that the inside of the solenoid is filled with pressurised gas (pale green/blue in the diag), it could be from a constant source like a compressor, or from a tank. Trigger the solenoid and the hollow bolts comes forward off the sealing face, allowing the pressurised gas to enter and drive the BB out the barrel. Release and it closes. simple hey?
OK, so you'd need some form of timing circuit for fully auto, but that's not that hard to work out surely? And this way, no need for a hammer valve at all.
Just a thought?
EDIT: Enlarge the image to get it to work properly.