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Unread postPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 1:25 pm
Author: boyntonstu
POLAND_SPUD wrote:IMO spudguns shouldn't look like real guns because that makes them look more dangerous in the eyes of others

but I have to agree that it's good to have a stock (or at least a part that acts as a stock) and more less the design that's used on traditional guns


Great post!

Not to be taken lightly.

When a child is holding a toy gun with an orange muzzle, the armed officer of the law will not be quick to pull a trigger.

Some children have been killed because their 'toy' did not show orange.

Make you gun look realistic and your risk of being killed is greater than if you are perceived of holding some plumbing pipe.


A neighbor hears a 'shot', reports it, and anything can happen.

BoyntonStu

Unread postPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 1:28 pm
Author: D_Hall
boyntonstu wrote:I do NOT want it near my face!

Why not? If you've half the gun experience you claim you've no doubt held much more powerful gizmos next to your face.

What's that? You don't trust your spud gun enough to hold it near your face? May I suggest building a better spud gun? Seriously, if you don't trust your spud gun near your face, you shouldn't be holding it at all.

I shoot from the hip. No stock needed.

Some of us are actually interested in hitting targets that are smaller than the proverbial broad side of a barn at ranges that are significantly greater than point blank. Now, if you claim to be able to hit an eagle's eye from 500 meters while riding a horse and shooting from the hip? Hey, good for you. Most of us are not so gifted.

i do have over 60 years experience with all sort of weapons.

And based on your collective body of posts, at least where spud guns are concerned I'd say that there are teenagers around here who have learned more in their brief time then you did in your 60 years.

Unread postPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 1:33 pm
Author: Brian the brain
i have rifles and handguns.
I designed and built a 3/4' pneumatic.
I have no desire to make it look like a store bought gun.
I think that pneumatics should have their own personalities and not look like a firearm.
When you go over a 1"-2" barrel, the firearm appearance becomes a mute point.


I have no real firearms.
I have designed and built over 50 different types of pneumatic launchers ,ranging from a 4" porting piston valved one to several full automatic ones, some swords, crossbows, and things that shoot that can not even be catagorised.
Some look more like weapons than others.

I have no desire to make anything look the way you'd like.
They are mine.

Unread postPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 1:48 pm
Author: POLAND_SPUD
Form and function looks like a firearm? Cool. Coloring to match? NOT cool
that's pretty much what I meant... while I think that traditional design is more comfortable and ergonomic and I use it when possible there is no point in making your spudgun look more like a real firearm than it has to be


@JSR
a law against firearms that looked dangerous and "tactical"
that's my point really... an average person doesn't know anything about spudguns and how powerful they can be... so for general public if something looks like a gun it's dangerous

cops are no different... so I prefer to keep my guns look like a plumber's nightmare or science project but not like a real gun

Unread postPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 6:40 pm
Author: Ragnarok
I get the idea that this post/topic is somewhat directed at me, even if that's not consciously intentional, given this post of mine about a fortnight ago, where I and boyntonstu had some disagreement over the virtues of using firearms designs in spudguns.

My response is why not? If someone wants to use firearms design, then they should be free to - and if they've got a serious objective for a hand-held launcher, they'll probably need to.

Not everyone here can own firearms, so choosing to build a launcher is "the next best thing" for a lot of us.

If you were to explain some of what I'm trying to with 3vo to many Yanks, they'd ask "Why not buy a rifle or shotgun?" (Indeed, someone said to me in the chat essentially that - they'd had to explain to more than a few people why I'm doing what I'm doing rather than just buying a firearm.)

Anyway, as it stands, 3vo couldn't do half of what I wanted unless it did look like the steampunk lovechild of the Pancor Jackhammer and a PCP air rifle.

I'm not deliberately making it look like a firearm for the sake of making it look like one, but if you want a spudgun to do firearm type things, it will need at least some resemblance to a firearm.

Unread postPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 6:58 pm
Author: Brian the brain
How about wanting a look in between todays big bore airguns and the good old repeating Girandoni rifle?

I deliberatly made this thing more than a collection of pipes and fittings.
Never sacrifised function though.

What could be wrong with this hanging on a wall?

Unread postPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 8:37 pm
Author: rikukiakuchiki777
This is an intriguing topic but I think that if you have a launcher that somewhat resembles a firearm, you won't encounter much trouble unless your:

a) deliberately firing it in public, or

b) doing something else with it that is illegal

If a neighbor hears a shot, calls the police, I don't think they're going to instantly draw on you unless you aim the damn thing at them.

If you own something that resembles a firearm, treat it as such. Adequate firing range/backstop/etc. If its loud, limit firing it in a suburban or built up area.

Personally I can't see a problem with launchers look similar to a firearm. If you get into trouble, it's your fault, not the launchers.

Unread postPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 8:47 pm
Author: D_Hall
I got a PM asking for details on my coworker who got the SWAT team called on him.

There's really not much to tell. He was screwing around with a spray and pray combustion. The next thing he knows there are a dozen guys with M-16s in his face and he's face first on the ground. No idea who called it in, etc. as he was in the middle of frakkin' nowhere at the time.

His big mistake was that he was in a national park at the time (yes, stupid) so the charges were at the Federal level.

Dunno what ever happened on the legal side but I guess it got smoothed over because he still works here (and you can't work here with a felony conviction).

Unread postPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 9:18 pm
Author: Ragnarok
Brian the Brain wrote:What could be wrong with this hanging on a wall?

Not much, although it would depend where you were.

Overall, I think it's sort of a case of not too much of either. No, you don't want your launcher to look like it's an actual firearm in case of run-ins with the rozzers, but equally, it's daft to suggest that they shouldn't be able to bear some resemblance.

I ask BoyntonStu as to what he has in mind for this unique personality of spudguns.
Really, as far as design goes, anything that's actually practical has already been taken on board by at least one firearm in history.

Unread postPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 1:28 am
Author: Lockednloaded
if a "spudgun" looks like a "real gun" than the common person will treat it as one, and hopefully that means taking proper safety precautions which we can all appreciate. The other side of the argument is that if you have a "spudgun" that nowhere near resembles a "real gun" than it will attract no suspicion in places with harsh gun laws. I may be biased because i live in the US where it is our constitutional right to bear arms, but i say that a spudgun should always be treated like a real gun, and if a real gun look helps people realize that then why not make it look more realistic.

Unread postPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 1:28 am
Author: Lockednloaded
edit: Dang computer is so glitchy and slow it double posts every thing

Unread postPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 3:07 am
Author: inonickname
Something I've noticed, you preach here that spudguns should never ever look like a conventional firearm, and yet I've seen multiple threads in which you post about your "sten gun" configured gun.

So maybe your fairly low pressure pneumatic in a medium bore size doesn't have much recoil? Try shooting from the hip at thousands of joules.

I do NOT want it near my face!

I have no problem with having any of my spudguns near my face, unless it's at the muzzle end. Perhaps you should be building guns that are perhaps...safe?

Efficiency: What does adding a stock contribute to efficiency?

Well, lets say you call efficiency as the percentage of bullets that hit a target from a given range. You will hit more consistently with the stock.

Safety: How does adding a stock increase safety?

Ok. Take jeep's decimator. Fill the barrel with water. Now try fire it from the hip, with no stock, to tripod, no rest and nothing to support it. You'll probably break your wrists.

Some children have been killed because their 'toy' did not show orange.

Children have been shot for holding pears..Anything that looks like it has a barrel on it could be viewed as a weapon.

I shoot from the hip. No stock needed.

And for this reason your gun is obviously not awfully accurate.

Unread postPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 3:45 am
Author: jor2daje
Just wondering stu, have you made both types of launchers? I only see your 3/4" in the showcase section. I agree certain launchers shouldnt look like guns but it can be really fun to try to replicate a firearm when working in certain calibres.

Unread postPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 4:31 am
Author: spud downunder
i supose i culd add my own 2 cents worth. ok lets look at it this way, imagine that u are a police officer, or a member of the general public right. now imagine here u are walkin downt he street and u see sumone with a an odd configuration of pipes,and bits of wood in there hands which sort of resemble a firearm, u wuldnt think much of it wuld u, unless u knew wat it was, ( a spudgun) in which case u mite not be bothered by it. now imagine u see the same person holding sumfin that looks like a gun, and is coloured like a gun e.g black. see my point, i think that u shuld colour and add aditions to ur gun e.g a stock, in a way that it can be easily distinguished from a true firearm.

Unread postPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2009 4:37 am
Author: jor2daje
Good point, but if you carry your launcher around town I think you deserve to be arrested.