Login    Register
User Information
Username:
Password:
We are a free and open
community, all are welcome.
Click here to Register
Sponsored
Who is online

In total there are 71 users online :: 4 registered, 0 hidden and 67 guests


Most users ever online was 155 on Mon Aug 15, 2016 1:40 am

Registered users: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot], MSNbot Media, Yahoo [Bot] based on users active over the past 5 minutes

The Team
Administrators
Global Moderators
global_moderators.png CS

Community Project Poll

Comments, Suggestions, Questions, anything to do with the website or community it's self. This is a place to express thoughts about making this community better.
Sponsored 

Choose a Community Project

Poll ended at Mon Sep 21, 2009 3:04 pm

Community Project Idea #1
12
35%
Community Project Idea #2
7
21%
Community Project Idea #3
1
3%
Community Project Idea #4
11
32%
Community Project Idea #5
3
9%
 
Total votes : 34
  • Author
    Message

Community Project Poll

Unread postAuthor: Hubb » Fri Sep 18, 2009 3:04 pm

Listed below are the ideas from you, the members, as to what you guys thought the community project should be. Please look over each one and make a decision. Also, please note any changes that may be needed. You have three days.

Hubb
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Community Project Idea #1: Handheld, High Mix, Hybrid (HHH)
Category: Hybrid Cannons

- The launcher must be a hybrid launcher that will regularly fire at 10x mix
- The launcher must be capable of being comfortably held when being fired
- The launcher must be constructed from aluminum
- The launcher must be capable of firing one shot at least every 20 seconds
- The launcher must possess a bore size diameter of at least two inches

Due to the nature of this build, an easy to use recoil absorbing system should be added so as to direct the force of the recoil to the entire upper body rather than just a portion of it.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Community Project Idea #2: Minigun
Category: Pneumatic Cannons

- The launcher must be capable of shooting readily available ammunition
- The launcher must have a bore size of at least one half inch
- The launcher must have at least 6 rotating barrels that fire one round as the barrel reaches the top of the launcher
- The launcher must be capable of being comfortably held when being fired
- The launcher must have an automatic loading system to accommodate barrel spins
- The launcher must be equipped with a small electrical motor to rotate the barrels
- The air supply must be self contained on the launcher
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Community Project Idea #3: 4-Stroke Combustion
Category: Combustion / Hybrid Cannons

- The launcher will be a combustion or hybrid type launcher
- The launcher will be made to work similar to a 4 stroke engine (fueling, mixing, ignition, and exhausting will be automatic)
- A loading system will be designed for uniform projectiles to be properly loaded into the launcher

Operation of this launcher will be dependent on the build.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Community Project Idea #4: AutoGirandoni Rifle
Category: Pneumatic Cannons

- The launcher will be a pneumatic type launcher
- A hammer valve will be used as the primary firing valve
- The hammer valve will open with some form of cam, to allow for auto firing
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Community Project Idea #5: SFDBGOEPHP14ABAR
Category: General Cannons

- The launcher will be either a pneumatic, combustion, or hybrid type launcher
- The launcher will cycle automatically using a gas blowback system
- The launcher will have a form of loading system to accommodate the automatic cycle
- The launcher must have a bore size of at least one half inch

Optional: This launcher may be configured to operate on semi, burst, or full auto modes of firing, having a selector for each function.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Community Project #6: Pimp My AR
Category: General Cannons
- The launcher must be configured in the following manner
Image
(just a tribute to JSR - not an option at this point)
  • 0

Last edited by Hubb on Fri Sep 18, 2009 3:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Hubb
Major General
Major General
 
Posts: 2390
Joined: Mon May 28, 2007 8:39 am
Location: South Georgia
Reputation: 2

Unread postAuthor: Ragnarok » Fri Sep 18, 2009 3:24 pm

Can you clear up the metric and imperial issues? The values you've given don't match up, particularly with the 0.5"/14mm point (the two are different by about 10%) so it may well cause issues.
Either give them properly converted (0.5" = 12.7mm and 2" = 50.8mm by definition), or give it in only one measurement system.

Personally, I have to say these design briefs are mostly too specific and/or seem to insist on doing things by very roundabout routes.
  • 0

Does that thing kinda look like a big cat to you?
User avatar
Ragnarok
Chief of Staff
Chief of Staff
 
Posts: 5339
Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 8:23 am
Location: The UK
Reputation: 8

Unread postAuthor: Hubb » Fri Sep 18, 2009 3:29 pm

First suggestion noted. Since I like imperial measurements, I'll go with those.

Second suggestion is noted, however, I do plan on changing the chosen topic when the time comes to make it more "universal." If you have any suggestions, please let me know.
  • 0

User avatar
Hubb
Major General
Major General
 
Posts: 2390
Joined: Mon May 28, 2007 8:39 am
Location: South Georgia
Reputation: 2

Unread postAuthor: POLAND_SPUD » Fri Sep 18, 2009 5:05 pm

some specs are not specific enough...
Community Project Idea #4: AutoGirandoni Rifle

nothing is said about its performance... almost as if any working prototype would be ok

while some limit creativity...
The launcher must be equipped with a small electrical motor to rotate the barrels
what if someone wanted to use an air motor??


@rag
mostly too specific and/or seem to insist on doing things by very roundabout routes
I agree with that

we are told what valves, materials or operating principles we have to use instead of some thing like this:
1. is fully self contained
2. has a rate of fire of at least 3 RPS
3. its overall length is < than 105 cm
4. weight of the whole system is lower than 7 kg
5. has muzzle velocity of at least 180 m/s and muzzle energy of 50J
6. can penetrate one 3/4" plywood at 30 meters
7. doesn't require machined parts
8. has magazine/hopper capacity of at least 18 rounds
9. has to be able to fire 36 rounds on one charge


instead of specifying calibre we could balance things out by specifying muzzle velocity/energy and/or stating clearly what it should be able to penetrate at a given range... and so on

guidelines should be challenging so that people would have to use their ingenuity to come up with a design that can meet them

EDIT
  • 0

Last edited by POLAND_SPUD on Fri Sep 18, 2009 5:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Children are the future

unless we stop them now
User avatar
POLAND_SPUD
Chief of Staff
Chief of Staff
 
Posts: 5405
Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2007 4:43 pm
Country: Israel (il)
Reputation: 10

Unread postAuthor: Moonbogg » Fri Sep 18, 2009 5:10 pm

Go big or go home! Vote #1!! Supersonic baseball cannon!
  • 0

User avatar
Moonbogg
Major General
Major General
 
Posts: 1375
Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2008 10:20 pm
Location: whittier, CA USA
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: Hubb » Fri Sep 18, 2009 5:12 pm

Which...is...why...the poll / discussion is available. None of the above is set in stone, but these are the general ideas, provided to me by the community to be voted on. If there is a disagreement with how the layout of any of the ideas should be, post them here and they will be noted. However, be advised that there is a time limit on this poll / thread so if there are any disputes, they need to be disputed now (peacefully and as adults, that is).

Go big or go home! Vote #1!! Supersonic baseball cannon!
Or that's always an option :lol:
  • 0

User avatar
Hubb
Major General
Major General
 
Posts: 2390
Joined: Mon May 28, 2007 8:39 am
Location: South Georgia
Reputation: 2

Unread postAuthor: Ragnarok » Fri Sep 18, 2009 5:57 pm

POLAND_SPUD wrote:I don't like the fact that we are told what valves, materials or operating principles we have to use.

Definitely.

Now I've had a chance to think through what I want to say, the design briefs sound more like they're just the proposers trying to have a launcher they've already designed built by other people by slapping restrictions on it that are so tight there isn't the option to do it any way but the way they envision.

If we're doing this, I would like to see the design briefs written in a way that tells us what it's got to do, rather than how it has to do it.
I'm alright with seeing some restrictions on how it's done - size/bore, perhaps some material limits, type of launcher... but again, while I can accept some of it, I don't want to be told how I'm going to do it, I want to be told what I'm going to do.

I would also like to see the briefs giving some kind of idea of the importance of each task, and not portraying each element as immutable. In other words, less things worded in absolute terms, particularly where it's daft to do so, and places where "best efforts" are going to be adequate. Almost all design projects are a case of balancing between various elements (price usually being part of it), and in order to do that, you need some idea of which elements can be sacrificed and which can't.

To illustrate this, I'll take design #1 as an example.
Taking it strictly, it's practically impossible. We're not told "mostly aluminium", we're told "aluminium" - to make such a thing from solely aluminium is not going to be possible.
Also "the launcher must be capable of being comfortably held when being fired" - sorry, Moonbogg, but as I told you in the chat last night, while the recoil from such a thing will be within human limits, it will not be comfortable.
You'll have to choose between ballistic performance and comfort here.

Anyway, if our submitters could go away and redo their design briefs where the important element is "What the design must do", rather than "How the design will do it", and where there's some kind of priority on the design's objectives... that would be very useful.
  • 0

Does that thing kinda look like a big cat to you?
User avatar
Ragnarok
Chief of Staff
Chief of Staff
 
Posts: 5339
Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 8:23 am
Location: The UK
Reputation: 8

Sponsored

Sponsor
 


Unread postAuthor: maverik94 » Fri Sep 18, 2009 6:06 pm

I voted for the AutoGirandoni Rifle because I'm a big fan of the Girandoni rifles, and I'm a pneumatic purist. I know next to nothing about hybrids/combustibles, so if one of those wins, I'll be little or no help. Anyway, I love self-contained guns, in other words, ones that don't use external air sources like track/shock pumps, compressors, or co2 cartriges. Anyway, GO PNEUMATICS!!!!!!
  • 0

"You can't be friends with anyone if you aren't friends with yourself."
"I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I'm not." -André Gide
Give me a lever long enough, and a fulcrum on which to place it and I shall move the world.
–Archimedes
Defeat is always momentary.
–Carl Denham

Current Project: None, I'm in Spudremission.
User avatar
maverik94
Colonel
Colonel
 
Posts: 558
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 4:48 pm
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: Moonbogg » Fri Sep 18, 2009 6:25 pm

I agree with not setting things in stone. This is a community project and noone will tell us to not persue a course that we decide to agree on or that happens to evolve laong the way. I believe the guidlines are a great way to get us STARTED. If some things change along the way, I say "so be it". Lets just agree on a STARTING POINT and transfer some of this hot air into action.

EDIT: for instance, cannon #1 doesn't have to be comfortable in ragards to recoil. All he was saying is that its a hand held cannon and must be reasonably practical to use while holding. Nothing mounted to a tripod etc. Actually, I think a ridiculous recoil could very well add to the excitment and make videos more entertaining to watch. It will certainly increase the wow factor.
  • 0

Last edited by Moonbogg on Fri Sep 18, 2009 6:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Moonbogg
Major General
Major General
 
Posts: 1375
Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2008 10:20 pm
Location: whittier, CA USA
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: POLAND_SPUD » Fri Sep 18, 2009 6:26 pm

I would like to see the design briefs written in a way that tells us what it's got to do, rather than how it has to do it
right

I'm alright with seeing some restrictions on how it's done - size/bore, perhaps some material limits, type of launcher...
while I can understand size restrictions (as they make some sense for some small bore launchers... well actually they make sense for most guns) I don't think that caliber has to be specified...

if someone can achieve specified muzzle velocity with a small bore gun (even if it would be challenging) let him do it...
at teh same time other specs, such as mass or number of shots expected per one fill, guarantee that going with the largest possible calibre won't be the simplest way to win

so builders will be given more freedom as there will be more possible ways of doing things... so in the end we could have two completely different competing designs both of which meet all the criteria

I don't know much about hybrids so I can't offer much input as far as they're concerned... but the one for full auto hybrid lack any specs regarding it's performance... I don't really see any point in specifying it's size but on a gun like that you have to specify ROF
  • 0

Children are the future

unless we stop them now
User avatar
POLAND_SPUD
Chief of Staff
Chief of Staff
 
Posts: 5405
Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2007 4:43 pm
Country: Israel (il)
Reputation: 10

Unread postAuthor: Moonbogg » Fri Sep 18, 2009 6:32 pm

POLAND_SPUD wrote:
I don't know much about hybrids so I can't offer much input as far as they're concerned...


You can help with a hybrid design way more than you think. You have a mind which is mechanically inclined and posess universal talents to the hobby which will prove to be of great value in any design project. This goes for all of us who wish to participate.
  • 0

User avatar
Moonbogg
Major General
Major General
 
Posts: 1375
Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2008 10:20 pm
Location: whittier, CA USA
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: i-will » Sat Sep 19, 2009 12:53 am

i chose #4 because i'm an airsofter and i've been drawing this project in my head (and recently on paper) ever since i joined this community.

btw, what do u mean when u say "the hammer valve will open with some form of cam"?
  • 0

WHY PAY FOR IT WHEN U CAN MAKE IT?
User avatar
i-will
2nd Lieutenant
2nd Lieutenant
 
Posts: 245
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2008 3:04 am
Reputation: 0

Re: Community Project Poll

Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Sat Sep 19, 2009 1:56 am

Hubb wrote:Community Project Idea #1: Handheld, High Mix, Hybrid (HHH)
Category: Hybrid Cannons

- The launcher must be a hybrid launcher that will regularly fire at 10x mix
- The launcher must be capable of being comfortably held when being fired
- The launcher must be constructed from aluminum
- The launcher must be capable of firing one shot at least every 20 seconds
- The launcher must possess a bore size diameter of at least two inches

Due to the nature of this build, an easy to use recoil absorbing system should be added so as to direct the force of the recoil to the entire upper body rather than just a portion of it.


I wonder who suggested this one :roll: :D

Community Project Idea #2: Minigun
Category: Pneumatic Cannons

- The launcher must be capable of shooting readily available ammunition
- The launcher must have a bore size of at least one half inch
- The launcher must have at least 6 rotating barrels that fire one round as the barrel reaches the top of the launcher
- The launcher must be capable of being comfortably held when being fired
- The launcher must have an automatic loading system to accommodate barrel spins
- The launcher must be equipped with a small electrical motor to rotate the barrels
- The air supply must be self contained on the launcher


I would cut down on the bore size, especially if the air supply is to be self contained, otherwise the "comfortably held" specification becomes difficult to achieve.

Community Project Idea #3: 4-Stroke Combustion
Category: Combustion / Hybrid Cannons

- The launcher will be a combustion or hybrid type launcher
- The launcher will be made to work similar to a 4 stroke engine (fueling, mixing, ignition, and exhausting will be automatic)
- A loading system will be designed for uniform projectiles to be properly loaded into the launcher

Operation of this launcher will be dependent on the build.


Yes!!! I've been hinting at this for eons!

Community Project Idea #4: AutoGirandoni Rifle
Category: Pneumatic Cannons

- The launcher will be a pneumatic type launcher
- A hammer valve will be used as the primary firing valve
- The hammer valve will open with some form of cam, to allow for auto firing


You mean the cam will be externally powered? Something like these? For automatic fire with a hammer valve, something will have to recock the hammer.

Community Project Idea #5: SFDBGOEPHP14ABAR
Category: General Cannons

- The launcher will be either a pneumatic, combustion, or hybrid type launcher
- The launcher will cycle automatically using a gas blowback system
- The launcher will have a form of loading system to accommodate the automatic cycle
- The launcher must have a bore size of at least one half inch

Optional: This launcher may be configured to operate on semi, burst, or full auto modes of firing, having a selector for each function.


Very open specification there, I believe this can be done and can be done well.

(just a tribute to JSR - not an option at this point)


To the greatest spudgun in the world, oh right :D
  • 0

User avatar
jackssmirkingrevenge
Donating Member
Donating Member
 
Posts: 24225
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2007 11:28 pm
Country: Holy See (Vatican City State) (va)
Reputation: 66

Unread postAuthor: psycix » Sat Sep 19, 2009 6:18 am

1# Not very special is it? Just pull two grand out of your pocket and have one produced. Note that the largest aspect of the community project is to combine knowledge, and this is more about material aspects then knowledge.

2# Very challenging, but may be too hard, let's take an easier project and see how that rolls fist.

3# What the hell?

4# This one has my vote. Pneumatic cycling mechanisms, cool. I like how the name sounds too.

5# I don't really like blowback stuff. It is too much dependent on tweaking and luck to perform well.
  • 0

Till the day I'm dieing, I'll keep them spuddies flying, 'cause I can!

Spudfiles steam group, join!
User avatar
psycix
Donating Member
Donating Member
 
Posts: 3684
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2007 7:12 am
Location: The Netherlands
Reputation: 0

Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Sat Sep 19, 2009 6:35 am

psycix wrote:5# I don't really like blowback stuff. It is too much dependent on tweaking and luck to perform well.


I believe that the pop-off piloted QEV setup would generate a sufficent blast of air to operate a Monsoon style blowback system. All it would have to do is push back a spring loaded sleeve, with a big enough "suppressor wall piston" I think it would be more than capable of doing that.
  • 0

User avatar
jackssmirkingrevenge
Donating Member
Donating Member
 
Posts: 24225
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2007 11:28 pm
Country: Holy See (Vatican City State) (va)
Reputation: 66

Next

Return to Website Discussion

Who is online

Registered users: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot], MSNbot Media, Yahoo [Bot]

Reputation System ©'