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Another Contest Idea...

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Another Contest Idea...

Unread postAuthor: SpudBlaster15 » Wed Sep 01, 2010 3:57 pm

After viewing the response to the energy based contest I proposed earlier in the summer, it has become clear to me that such a thing would very likely end up being a flop on a site like this. Most people are here simply to have fun shooting stuff with homemade cannons, and aren't very interested in raw innovation and the pursuit of high energy.

That said, I'd still like to see such concepts explored, but perhaps it's a bit of a stretch to expect an overnight revolution. Before that can happen, we need to breath some life into the progressively stagnating site.

What I'm proposing is essentially a second installment of the highly successful Best shot on video contest held around Christmas '07. This is an ideal concept, as it provides a truly level playing field for everyone. You don't need fancy machining equipment, you don't need large amounts of money or space, hell, you don't even need a powerful launcher. Just a video camera, a target, and some creativity. The results of the previous contest proved that you do not need the biggest or best launcher to do well.

Clide did a very good job running the first one, so I'd be in favour of simply carrying over his rules and guidelines to the second installment:

The goal is to produce a video of your single favorite shot. One exception to this single shot rule is rapid fire guns. If you have a rapid fire gun then you can use one uncut second from the first impact to the last. Heck, I'll even say that you can use multiple guns as long as they are fired in the one uncut second.

Rules:

o One shot or one uncut second.
o One entry per user
o No explosives in the ammo or the target
o No solid propellants in the gun (no firearms)
o Must submit your own video, nothing that somebody else has done
o Shots you have recorded in the past can be entered in this competition

Submission Guidelines:
o Feel free to do slow motion, but if using the one second rule also provide real time
o Pictures of the gun and aftermath photos can also be included in the video
o Please make sure that the entry video only contains one shot or one second of shooting (it can contain that one shot multiple times). DO NOT submit a series of shots and try to specify which shot you want to enter.
o Format can be anything that most people can view: Youtube, Google Video, animated GIF, or Flash are a few things I would suggest.
o Deadline is the end of the day January 31 central time.
o Entries should be posted in this thread.

Judging:
o If there is a limited number of entries I will start a poll to determine the winner
o If there are a lot of entries then I will get at least three members who I feel can make an unbiased decision(respected members not entered in the contest) to narrow the results down to the top 6 for a poll


As for prizes, I'm sure we could get some kind of sponsorship from USG, and I'd be willing to donate a few items I have laying around new in box (Electronic BBQ igniters, aluminum cam-locks, etc). Perhaps we could also have a small PayPal donation pool that could be divided up amongst the top 3 finalists.

Thoughts?
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Unread postAuthor: MrCrowley » Wed Sep 01, 2010 4:13 pm

Hey I came third, sweet :D

I like the idea, especially since i'm going to buy a Casio Exilim FC100 this month. I guess those with high speed cameras will have an advantage but it wouldn't be too difficult to come up with some crazy shot (shooting a watermelon mid-air for example) which looks good on any camera.
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Unread postAuthor: Lockednloaded » Wed Sep 01, 2010 4:43 pm

Best shot on camera doesn't only include destructive shots does it? what about a cool shot that doesn't destroy something, but rather an amazingly accurate shot, or something of the nature? I guess its really up to the members on the site. They'll be voting anyway
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Unread postAuthor: Gun Freak » Wed Sep 01, 2010 5:04 pm

LnL its not nessecarily a powerful shot or anything just a creative one.

I like the idea of doing it again and might enter. Me and Reedfe are making a few vids this weekend. May the best man win....
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Re: Another Contest Idea...

Unread postAuthor: PCGUY » Wed Sep 01, 2010 8:24 pm

SpudBlaster15 wrote:After viewing the response to the energy based contest I proposed earlier in the summer, it has become clear to me that such a thing would very likely end up being a flop on a site like this. Most people are here simply to have fun shooting stuff with homemade cannons, and aren't very interested in raw innovation and the pursuit of high energy.

That said, I'd still like to see such concepts explored, but perhaps it's a bit of a stretch to expect an overnight revolution. Before that can happen, we need to breath some life into the progressively stagnating site.


You are seriously starting to piss me off, why don't you get off your high horse and do something AMAZING that you seem to demand out of everyone else "or it's piss poor". It's as if you come here purely to be entertained by others creations and when you don't get what you want, you whine.

The idea (energy based idea) is interesting but turns into a flop because a contest has to be feasible and luring to members, which once discussed, it's neither.
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Unread postAuthor: Lockednloaded » Wed Sep 01, 2010 8:33 pm

Spudblaster15 wrote:After viewing the response to the energy based contest I proposed earlier in the summer, it has become clear to me that such a thing would very likely end up being a flop on a site like this. Most people are here simply to have fun shooting stuff with homemade cannons, and aren't very interested in raw innovation and the pursuit of high energy.


C'mon, not everybody has the resources or the space or o.k from parents to build high mix hybrids or high energy guns. You have access to high energy chemicals and a range in which you can shoot loud cannons.

But back to the competition...
I may join if I can find a good enough ammo/target to film, my brother has an HD camera I may be able to borrow
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Re: Another Contest Idea...

Unread postAuthor: SpudBlaster15 » Wed Sep 01, 2010 9:58 pm

PCGUY wrote:You are seriously starting to piss me off


Clearly someone needs to work on their interpretation of tone through text. Nothing I said warranted such an aggressive response; I was simply stating my opinion on the matter.

why don't you get off your high horse and do something AMAZING that you seem to demand out of everyone else "or it's piss poor".


I do what I can with the materials and resources I have available. I think most of the veteran members would agree that I've contributed plenty of innovation and quality builds to the site over the years. At the moment, there are very few people trying to continue the trend of "New and innovative", and I'm one of the ones who's at least making an effort.

It's as if you come here purely to be entertained by others creations and when you don't get what you want, you whine.


That's not it at all. I want to see spudding technology continue its progression from a couple years ago, when new cannons were being posted every day, and innovative cannons at least once a week or so. The benefits are not based on personal gain, but the development of the community as a whole.

The idea (energy based idea) is interesting but turns into a flop because a contest has to be feasible and luring to members, which once discussed, it's neither.


I'd argue that it's only uninteresting to the current member base. 2 years ago, such a contest would have drawn a fair number of very intriguing entries. This is why I've gone with a backup plan and proposed a contest that will be more interesting to those who only do this as a casual sport. Disappointing that such lengths have to be explored, but without a single truly memorable project posted during the summer, I think we need something, anything, to jump start this place again.

Now, can we PLEASE get back to the original topic? I didn't make this thread to argue about the state of the site, or discuss why my original contest idea was a flop. Keep moving onwards...
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Last edited by SpudBlaster15 on Thu Sep 02, 2010 12:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Another Contest Idea...

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Unread postAuthor: DYI » Wed Sep 01, 2010 11:23 pm

Apart from the innovation contest of 2006(?), the best shot contest was the most successful I remember. Lots of entries, and it made for some very impressive videos. I fondly recall the visceral thrill of using a 3" bore ABS barrel at 500psi and -30 Celsius :lol:

I think we might be able to stir up some interest by repeating it, and the recent proliferation of high framerate capable cameras only improves the prospects for a repeat of the original's excellent results.

Regardless of appetites for high muzzle energy and technological progress, everyone here can sink their teeth into a challenge for supreme entertainment value. This contest could easily be made into a regular one, perhaps Christmas time and summer each year. Most members would be able to enter at least one per year, and it would certainly boost levels of interest and motivation. I'm all for it, and would gladly assist in organizing/judging it if help was needed.
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Unread postAuthor: Technician1002 » Thu Sep 02, 2010 12:00 pm

I definitely need to get a high speed camera. Instead of an apple vs a small water bottle (impressive in it's own right, I think a high speed shot of a grapefruit into a 5 gallon water bottle needs done. :D I gotta build my 8 gallon 4 inch now..
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Unread postAuthor: qwerty » Thu Sep 02, 2010 12:42 pm

Hmm good idea but i think the people who have high speed a camera have a HUGE advantage over others that don't. The shot would look awsome doing anything. we could split it into two sections and the winner of each section (High speed and normal speed) would get an equal prize and the runners up the same.


That's not it at all. I want to see spudding technology continue its progression from a couple years ago, when new cannons were being posted every day, and innovative cannons at least once a week or so. The benefits are not based on personal gain, but the development of the community as a whole.


But Two years ago lots of things hadn't been figured out. I will get alot of backchat about this, but in innovative terms don't you think spudding has got as far as it can get with the materials most of us have, we've discovered hundreds of valves, things, ect. but now all it realy is, is making complicated semi and full-auto valves that most of us don't have the tools and materials to make them.
I'm not arguing it's just my opinion.
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Unread postAuthor: Fnord » Thu Sep 02, 2010 1:33 pm

I'd like to see a pengun shooting some dominos or cards set up to create a chain reaction that keeps getting bigger and bigger and ends with a building being destroyed or a car flying off a cliff or something. Whatever is avalible. You don't need a good camera for a contest-winner shot, just creative use of unusual items you already have.


...but in innovative terms don't you think spudding has got as far as it can get with the materials most of us have, we've discovered hundreds of valves, things, ect. but now all it realy is, is making complicated semi and full-auto valves that most of us don't have the tools and materials to make them.


We may want to move some of this discussion into a seperate thread. It might take off.

Alternate methods of propulsion (electromagnetic/thermal, centerfugal, spring/motor/gearbox etc.) have only been dabbled in at best. This doesn't appeal so much to the classic definition of a "spudgun", but it does open up new areas that the average, "mid-budget" hobbyist could afford.
These alternatives may well have advantages and applications that traditional launchers don't; we just haven't discovered them yet.

Also, we have seem to have a very few guns that are truly "artistic" in nature. Most people are content to just let the pipes hang out, when all it might take to create something really cool-looking is time, and 10-$20 worth of bondo and fiberglass. I just let the pipes show, but I try to re-arrange them to make everything look nicer(I wish I could show you what my old hybrid v2.1 looks like. It's much improved from the 2.0 version. 3.0 was also never posted and is currently disassembled in ohio).
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Unread postAuthor: SpudBlaster15 » Thu Sep 02, 2010 2:13 pm

This contest could easily be made into a regular one, perhaps Christmas time and summer each year. Most members would be able to enter at least one per year, and it would certainly boost levels of interest and motivation.


Excellent idea. An annual or seasonal contest would be great for the site.

Hmm good idea but i think the people who have high speed a camera have a HUGE advantage over others that don't.


Not necessarily. Keep in mind that consumer grade cameras will typically only film high framerates at reduced resolution with no audio, so while the shot may look impressive, the overall video quality is diminished. A creative filming setup with a standard 30fps HD camcorder could easily beat out most of the high speed videos I've seen on the site.

But Two years ago lots of things hadn't been figured out.


Like what? Two years ago, we had semi-auto valve designs, handheld launchers that looked like firearms and were within an order of magnitude of their performance, high pressure stirrup pumps and fridge compressors, hybrid designs that could be shoulder fired, high to extremely high mix (20-200X) hybrid launchers, etc.. The same things that are still the pinnacle of innovation in current times.

I will get alot of backchat about this, but in innovative terms don't you think spudding has got as far as it can get with the materials most of us have


Not even close. We've only just scratched the surface of what's possible with conventional materials and construction techniques. I understand how people can feel 'trapped' by their surroundings and budget, but there is always room to think outside the box. A year ago, if someone had told me that it was possible to use only hardware store parts to construct a handheld 1.5" bore hybrid that could exceed the muzzle energy of most hunting rifles, while maintaining the ROF of an advanced combustion launcher, I would have likely had a brief chuckle, then stated something along the lines of "Ok, let's see you build it". Now that I've achieved this, all the while living in a densely populated residential area with no real shop, I find it difficult to feel empathy for those who complain about not being able to build the launchers they want for whatever reason.*

*The obvious exception is if you've recently had your property raided and are under very close supervision from local law enforcement, or have found yourself in a similar situation, probably similar to what Fnord has eluded to in the posts since his return.

we've discovered hundreds of valves, things, ect. but now all it realy is, is making complicated semi and full-auto valves that most of us don't have the tools and materials to make them.


That's only the pneumatic side of things. Maybe pneumatic technology is a dead end, but there are at least 2 or 3 separate fields of high energy launch technology that are a very long way from being fully explored.

Alternate methods of propulsion (electromagnetic/thermal, centerfugal, spring/motor/gearbox etc.) have only been dabbled in at best. This doesn't appeal so much to the classic definition of a "spudgun", but it does open up new areas that the average, "mid-budget" hobbyist could afford.
These alternatives may well have advantages and applications that traditional launchers don't; we just haven't discovered them yet.

Also, we have seem to have a very few guns that are truly "artistic" in nature. Most people are content to just let the pipes hang out, when all it might take to create something really cool-looking is time, and 10-$20 worth of bondo and fiberglass.


These are both very good points, and I agree.
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Unread postAuthor: Lockednloaded » Thu Sep 02, 2010 4:45 pm

I've got an exercise trampoline and a large bore launcher... I could come up with something. count me in
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Unread postAuthor: Ragnarok » Thu Sep 02, 2010 6:55 pm

Sounds interesting. Perhaps this time around I'll be organised enough to take part.

SpudBlaster15 wrote:Not necessarily. Keep in mind that consumer grade cameras will typically only film high framerates at reduced resolution with no audio, so while the shot may look impressive, the overall video quality is diminished.

Yes, but still, I'd say that you're overstating that disadvantage.
After all, the FC100 will shoot at 480x360 and 210 fps. Now, while that's not HD, the video quality is still pretty good if shot in good light (it will also scale easily up to 4:3 720p without any real problems, and can thus be uploaded to youtube to be viewed under their less lossy HD compression, even if the resolution isn't there). That's a 7 or 8 times slowdown, depending on final framerate, and still at a decent quality.

But at the other end of the spectrum, even if you argue that HD and HS cameras are an advantage, not all SD cameras are equal.

The camera I used for HEAL's video recorded at 640x480 and 10 frames per second (and I wish I was joking about that frame rate, although a decent pulldown did scale it up to 25 fps without it looking totally atrocious). But then again, the video was pretty popular, at least until youtube took it down - camera quality is not necessarily related to the popularity of the video.

So, I'd say that High Speed or High Def is an advantage, not automatically a winner.

On the note of sound however - I'd say that most cameras are pretty useless at capturing sound, especially such sounds as a muzzle blast.
I have got a version of the HEAL video somewhere where the sound was replaced with a recording I took on a more competent device - that was a fairly big improvement.

Of course, it's possible to do that with a HS camera - record sound separately, and slow it as appropriate. (Sound, if recorded well, and appropriately synchronised, does not complain about being slowed down in the same way as video does. But in some ways, HS videos don't have to have sound - sometimes it's that silence and eerie strangeness which gives them their appeal.

Lockednloaded wrote:I've got an exercise trampoline and a large bore launcher... I could come up with something

An entry to America's Funniest Home Videos?

*BOINGBOINGBOINGBOOMARGHMYFACE*
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Unread postAuthor: Gaderelguitarist » Fri Sep 03, 2010 1:46 am

An entry to America's Funniest Home Videos?

*BOINGBOINGBOINGBOOMARGHMYFACE*


Tom Bergeron would probably make some reference to some people not needing trampolines.

I like the idea of this contest. I have two very simple, but working combustion guns and would love to experiment with doing a cool shot. Perhaps I could rig my french fry cutter to the muzzle and launch french fries at a deep fryer.

On a side note, Spudblaster, you did kind of step out of line by calling PCGuy's website stagnant. I understand the need for constructive criticism, but it's got to be kept pleasant. I'll play the neutrality card on this though to stay out of the crossfire.
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