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Beginner's 1st Cannon

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Unread postAuthor: cammyd32 » Mon May 09, 2011 11:27 am

Then could you say something like "this page is for information purposes only, under no circumstances should anybody repeat or try to re-create what is on this page", that might work
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Unread postAuthor: warhead052 » Mon May 09, 2011 11:29 am

For the liability issue, I would just put a disclaimer saying that we never instructed anyone to build/use these, and we advise that you have a parents permission and the usual stuff. That way if something ever does happen, we technically cant get the blame because of the disclaimer. In fact, now I typed this, I am going to post those on my creations/ideas.
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Unread postAuthor: jrrdw » Mon May 09, 2011 2:44 pm

There is all ready a disclaimer here, were getting off track. In fact most of these idea's have been talked about before. I guess nothing new is going to come from it...IDK, I'll think on it a while.
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Unread postAuthor: SpudBlaster15 » Mon May 09, 2011 2:49 pm

jrrdw wrote:I knew there would be talk of "spoon feeding" but the bases of this idea/thought was geared towards the newbies who do have enough skills to build a basic cannon.


If a new member has the skills to build a basic cannon and is looking to advance, all of the information is already here for the taking. None of the current or past contributing members required guides, plans or parts lists to build some pretty impressive and innovative launchers. Your idea will only make it easier for individuals with less than adequate intelligence and skill to play with forces that could easily injure/kill themselves or others.

Additionally, this will result in a lot of clone cannons floating around, which really does nothing for the community. Personally (And I know I sound like a broken record here), I think the effort could be better directed towards improving existing launcher build quality and performance standards.
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Unread postAuthor: clemsonguy1125 » Mon May 09, 2011 2:57 pm

The issue with liability is, while we can have the disclaimer, the owner of the site a writer of the directions could be held liable.
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That is all.
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Unread postAuthor: jrrdw » Mon May 09, 2011 3:19 pm

Unfortunately the inevitable is going to happen.

So the question now changes to "How do we or can we steer the "dolts" who have no build skills (and we don't spoon feed them) to build something that's not going to kill/maim themselves with?".

Look at it from this point of view. 15 year old Wendel sees Spudfiles for the 1st time and jumps up and down for joy and is going to build a cannon! He doesn't feel like reading through the post in the How To's, and he's looking at Spudblaster15's hybird to model after. He doesn't have any copper so he's going to use PVC it's cheaper. Can't afford cement and primer but his dad all ready has automotive goop and that stuff holds anything.

So he gets his project home and glues it all together and the auto goop has dried, gets out the propane and bike pump and charges the chamber.

Tell me...Is there a way we can get Wendel to do better? Spoon feed him??? Is he our responsibility? No, but he got this idea from Spudblaster15's postings here at Spudfiles.

I'm just thinking there can be a way to help "Wendal" out with out the nono of spoon feeding, but yet have him learn and want to do it right.

We've all seen the Youtube video's. Wendal has been here before and he's coming back again and again and again...
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Last edited by jrrdw on Mon May 09, 2011 3:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Unread postAuthor: cammyd32 » Mon May 09, 2011 3:22 pm

The issue with liability is, while we can have the disclaimer, the owner of the site a writer of the directions could be held liable.
Does not seem to be an issue on instructables;http://www.instructables.com/tag/type-id/category-play/channel-offbeat/keyword-gun/
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Unread postAuthor: jrrdw » Mon May 09, 2011 3:35 pm

jrrdw wrote:There is all ready a disclaimer here, were getting off track.


Keep on topic...
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Unread postAuthor: cammyd32 » Mon May 09, 2011 3:36 pm

Right, OK back on subject....
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Unread postAuthor: jackssmirkingrevenge » Mon May 09, 2011 3:59 pm

Good idea in principle, but you don't want to show something any idiot can build - because they will.

This is as far as I went with the pen gun how-to:

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It's detailed enough without an exact instructible style step-by-step guide holding the reader's hand through the difficult prose, but anyone with sufficient common sense could put it together.
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Unread postAuthor: Zeus » Mon May 09, 2011 5:07 pm

I think MrCrowley's instructions are pushing the extent of spoonfeeding, it's a well written guide which anyone can follow. And therein lies the problem.

A good project to teach the basics of fuel metering would be a well made mini. And if someone can handle volumetric fuel metering they can build a hybrid (and what we want are more hybrids).

Alternately a coaxial sort of mini, that's weak enough to not do too much harm, and will explain the concepts of piston valves.

I thought I'd better make a constructive post after my flame post.
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/sarcasm, /hyperbole
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Unread postAuthor: jrrdw » Mon May 09, 2011 5:10 pm

JSR wrote:Good idea in principle, but you don't want to show something any idiot can build - because they will.


Step back and think about that statement for a minute........or until you realize any one of our cannons can be modeled after.

If we don't want to show something any idiot can build no body can show their cannons.
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Unread postAuthor: Lockednloaded » Mon May 09, 2011 5:11 pm

Just thought I'd chime in here...
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Unread postAuthor: Zeus » Mon May 09, 2011 5:13 pm

I think JSR is referring to an instructibles type guide. I think if someone is clever enough to replicate a launcher posted here, chances are they're smart enough to not be an idiot with it.

That's how I intrepreted his post anyway.
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Unread postAuthor: MrCrowley » Mon May 09, 2011 5:21 pm

Any kid who can build a spray and pray can also make crude explosives just as easily, so I don't think we should be worrying too much that someone could replicate a cannon without much knowledge.

I've been trying to think of a simple universal reply we can give to every member asking for plans/guides or what to make, the only viable option would be to give a quick run down of everything, from what valves to use to what chamber material and how long your barrel should be. I don't think there is any short way of doing this though, unless someone wants to write a lengthy reply that gives a run down of every basic attribute to a cannon (pneumatic or combustion), even then I doubt the member would read it all but at least we can lock the topic and move on feeling like we helped.

It could be as simple as: Ball valves - High flow when fully opened. Slow opening time limits flow and reduces performance which means a ball valve should only be used on cannons with oversized barrels and heavy projectiles.

But there are so many other factors that would need to be addressed for that statement alone. Such as the possibility of using another valve, what constitutes an 'oversized barrel' or 'heavy projectile', what diameter the ball valve should be for a given barrel size etc etc.

I just don't think it can be done.
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