Help with First Pneumatic Cannon

Show us your pneumatic spud gun! Discuss pneumatic (compressed gas) powered potato guns and related accessories. Valve types, actuation, pipe, materials, fittings, compressors, safety, gas choices, and more.
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jackssmirkingrevenge
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Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:55 am

There are definitely a lot of commercial examples of compact semi-automatics running off 12 gram CO2 cartridges, replicating them without a lathe and mill is going to be a complex task however. Critically, CO2 is pretty high vapor pressure in the 800-1200 psi region, which means your components are going to need to take a lot of pressure.

A hammer valve is your best bet, here's a home made one but again, high pressure make it a lot more challenging. A way to avoid it is to allow the CO2 to expand in a larger chamber that will allow the pressure to drop. Here's an idea of volume vs pressure from the SpudWiki:

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This doesn't bode well for compactness though.

You might want to look into how paintball guns work:

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3D printing the trigger mechanism would be feasibly and hardware store tubing would take care of the rest.
hectmarr wrote:You have to make many weapons, because this field is long and short life
LordFarquaad
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Mon Dec 18, 2017 7:39 pm

Hey Jack,

Thanks for the help! By the looks of it there is no viable option to purchase a valve of eBay and a bunch of other stuff and “hook” everything up together. Regarding the paintball internal mechanism I don’t think I would have enough space to fit that into the rifle shell I currently have.
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jackssmirkingrevenge
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Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:21 am

By the looks of it there is no viable option to purchase a valve of eBay and a bunch of other stuff and “hook” everything up together.
It's possible to make a functioning semi-automatic with off-the-shelf components (quick exhaust valve + 3 way valve), but it won't be compact in the sense of realistically fitting within the envelope of a "real" rifle without some custom components. You also didn't mention what caliber and performance you were after.
hectmarr wrote:You have to make many weapons, because this field is long and short life
LordFarquaad
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Tue Dec 19, 2017 7:47 pm

I plan on shooting Gel-Balls, up to a distance of 15m to would be great. In regards to the QEV how would I attach a CO2 cartridge to one, in regards to fittings and etc. I fear that a 12g cartridge would run out after a couple shots.
Air2theBrain
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Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:09 pm

LordFarquaad wrote:I plan on shooting Gel-Balls, up to a distance of 15m to would be great. In regards to the QEV how would I attach a CO2 cartridge to one, in regards to fittings and etc. I fear that a 12g cartridge would run out after a couple shots.
Get a 88g co2 cartridge, they hold 1000psi.

Just screws right in.
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Zeus
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Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:27 pm

Gel balls, you're gonna need to use fairly low pressure, they split very easily. I'd use propane instead, fairly steady pressure, cheap as (Big W has them for $10, and a 450g canister will last ages.

Also you'll want a very smooth barrel, Bunnings have 8mm and 10mm ID aluminium tube that has a fantastic internal finish
/sarcasm, /hyperbole
LordFarquaad
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Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:19 am

Air2theBrain wrote:
Get a 88g co2 cartridge, they hold 1000psi.

Just screws right in.
Image
Thank you all!

If it were a 12g cartridge it wouldn't screw in as you have to pierce the cartrige, am I right?
Zeus wrote:Gel balls, you're gonna need to use fairly low pressure, they split very easily. I'd use propane instead, fairly steady pressure, cheap as (Big W has them for $10, and a 450g canister will last ages.

Also you'll want a very smooth barrel, Bunnings have 8mm and 10mm ID aluminium tube that has a fantastic internal finish
Dunno which state your from mate but Big W doesn't sell jack all in WA, Big W isn't as dominant as K-mart and Target.
Air2theBrain
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Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:10 am

Doesn't matter what size cartridge amigo...it has co2 inside which needs to be expelled...just a slight tap with a nail..you'll get a little woosh and its all out.

The 12g cartridge im not sure about, just order yourself a 88g co2 cartridge from ebay, they have threaded ends. :wink:

Drive a nail into a piece of timber first..then hold the timber one hand, hammer with the other..and pop.
LordFarquaad
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Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:35 am

Air2theBrain wrote:Doesn't matter what size cartridge amigo...it has co2 inside which needs to be expelled...just a slight tap with a nail..you'll get a little woosh and its all out.

The 12g cartridge im not sure about, just order yourself a 88g co2 cartridge from ebay, they have threaded ends. :wink:

Drive a nail into a piece of timber first..then hold the timber one hand, hammer with the other..and pop.
Wow thanks mate! Learnt a lot so far! In regards to the valves that have a pin you push to expel a gas arn’t they called hammer valves? If that’s correct why can’t I find any on eBay in Australia. This is a little side project for my kid brother who likes to mess around with CO2 and likes bolt action designs.
Air2theBrain
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Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:46 pm

You guys have amazingamazon, they sell them there. :)

In regards to hammer valves i can't help you im afraid, im still learning and hammer valves i still can't wrap my head around.

EDIT-Forgot to mention, you want the Fluval 88g C02 cartridges.

They also sell them in 20g cartridges..1x88g and 1x20g would make for a nice neat compact plinker. :wink:
LordFarquaad
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Thu Dec 21, 2017 6:45 pm

Yeah tricky little things arn’t they. As I’m new to all this is it possible to buy one of these pre-made?
[youtube][/youtube]
Air2theBrain
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Fri Dec 22, 2017 2:12 pm

LordFarquaad wrote:Yeah tricky little things arn’t they. As I’m new to all this is it possible to buy one of these pre-made?
[youtube][/youtube]
I highly doubt it....even when i look at those pieces i still can't figure out how i would get them to work sadly.. :(

Hopefully a member here can help you..but for a first cannon i would build a qev launcher to start with.
Kensingt0n
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Fri Dec 22, 2017 10:09 pm

Hey matey,

In regards to the butane cans, K-mart has a pack of 3 cans for around $5, all found in the camping/outdoor section ;)
Hammer valves aren't exactly sold as product but are pretty easy to make with some basic hand tools. I've seen that video before and the guy has a few other videos building pretty similar stuff, if you have a look through, it should show more detail on his valves.

Basically, it's 15mm x 15mm male to male coupling with a hole drilled in the side. The bolts that are cut off are used as stem guides and somewhere for the spring to be compressed against. At rest with pressure in the tank, the rubber seal will press against the end of the coupling, sealing off the transfer port (side hole) from the air. When the valve stem is struck, it slides away from the end of the coupling allowing a rush of air from the tank to flow past the rubber seal and out through the transfer port. The spring and air pressure push the valve stem and seal back towards it's rest position and the valve re-seals.

It's quite funny really, i've just finished up a project based on the exact video posted ;)
I'll get some pics up when I get the chance. Hope this helped out mate!
Air2theBrain
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Sat Dec 23, 2017 5:07 pm

That really helped....good to read a detailed description thank you.

I really want to build a single shot, breech loaded hammer valve cannon.

Once i have finished the qev cannons i will start on one.
LordFarquaad
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Sun Dec 24, 2017 1:11 am

Kensingt0n wrote:Hey matey,

In regards to the butane cans, K-mart has a pack of 3 cans for around $5, all found in the camping/outdoor section ;)
Hammer valves aren't exactly sold as product but are pretty easy to make with some basic hand tools. I've seen that video before and the guy has a few other videos building pretty similar stuff, if you have a look through, it should show more detail on his valves.

Basically, it's 15mm x 15mm male to male coupling with a hole drilled in the side. The bolts that are cut off are used as stem guides and somewhere for the spring to be compressed against. At rest with pressure in the tank, the rubber seal will press against the end of the coupling, sealing off the transfer port (side hole) from the air. When the valve stem is struck, it slides away from the end of the coupling allowing a rush of air from the tank to flow past the rubber seal and out through the transfer port. The spring and air pressure push the valve stem and seal back towards it's rest position and the valve re-seals.

It's quite funny really, i've just finished up a project based on the exact video posted ;)
I'll get some pics up when I get the chance. Hope this helped out mate!
Thanks mate - helped me a tonne. I’ll be sure to head off to Kmart soon.
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