EDIT Butane powered pneumatic

[sputnick]

CO2 is out of the question for me personally, my local paintball arena uses only HPA, at 3000 psi, which I imagine is more of an expensive ordeal to set up, besides, that's not nearly as fun as doing it yourself

[starman]

I do appreciate this....he's only step or 2 away from a real semi-auto combustion here, full auto could then easily follow. I think this is the fastest rate of fire I've seen with a combustion.

I don't think the french as a whole, are more creative...looks like they may have a handful of guys that excel at cannon building. They don't stick to PVC because of its cost and/or availability there. Because of that, they, like many of you guys in Europe, trend toward smaller gauge metal guns.

[POLAND_SPUD]

@starman yeah but the fact that you have cheap pvc acctually limits you not us...

the way you presented it seems that we are in worse situtatuion becasue 'we' have to stick to small bore guns.... but in fact 'you' have to stick to large sized PVC pipes & fittings to get the same power as we can get from small bore launchers becasue PVC can't handle high pressures...

I have 8 and 10 meter lenghts of 1.75" steel pipe as well as some fittings.. I've always wanted to turn that into a simple 400psi burst disk gun... but I don't think I will ever build it... I don't really need 14000 J with 1000g ammo

[sputnick]

Who cares about need, that sounds like it would be a blast, Literally

[POLAND_SPUD]

well I might try a smaller version of it... I mean something that won't put me in jail... for example a 7m barrel and 1m chamber

hmmm what has happend to DYI??

[CpTn_lAw]

We (the french) cant get our hand on cheap pressure rated PVC...galvanised steel is rather cheap, and copper fittings are available...why ask for more?
Most of my fellow french man don't use pressure rated parts; my brother for example has quit spudding when he almost blew his hand off.
I have a friend who had his combustion explode because he didn't use P.R. pvc (pressure rated).
Creativity is one thing, getting it to actually work is another, we should make an alliance ^^' .
if you have things you want me to translate, don't hesitate

[starman]

@starman yeah but the fact that you have cheap pvc acctually limits you not us...

the way you presented it seems that we are in worse situtatuion becasue 'we' have to stick to small bore guns.... but in fact 'you' have to stick to large sized PVC pipes & fittings to get the same power as we can get from small bore launchers becasue PVC can't handle high pressures...

I said "They don't stick to PVC because of its cost and/or availability there. Because of that, they, like many of you guys in Europe, trend toward smaller gauge metal guns." ..."trend" being the operative word there. Big bore metal stuff is mondo heavy and really impractical unless you just want to do it. There also tends to be more legal problems there so your projects have to be much more discreet. I'm not slamming you guys at all, just pointing to the trend.

I have access to basically everything you guys in Europe do...plus access to cheap PVC...why would you say that limits me?

[Ragnarok]

I have access to basically everything you guys in Europe do...plus access to cheap PVC...why would you say that limits me?

Not necessarily limits you personally, but it means people will gravitate towards the cheap materials, generating less ingenuity. Working with a smaller set of materials will force people into thinking laterally about what they're doing.

Indeed, the best of innovation comes from people who were forced to work within limits. With no limits, people just gravitate to the easy route - they work, but they're not impressive. So although people can impose these limits on themselves, they don't always choose to - where the limits are forced upon them, they have to.

Take something like the Upkeep bomb, which was brilliant innovation inspired by being forced to work around limitations

[POLAND_SPUD]

first of all, why would anyone want to use PVC if I have cheap threaded malleable iron pipes and fittings and I can try to rearange all my guns over and over again or add new stuff to them...?

secondly, if PVC is cheap where you live and easy to work with why would you need higher pressures ? notice that there are mostly PVC guns here...

moreover, you can't really make a powerful shoulder fired PVC gun... handheld PVC guns have to be large bore to be really powerful and it just happens that it's much more difficult to implement some more advanced stuff like semi auto operation as the size increases...

and finally... this site is full of PVC guns... when someone is completelly new to spudgunning he can base his design on what others created and on their knowledge... I know it's a good thing but on the other hand this limits creativity as people follow a set path - first a BV pneumatic or basic combustion, then a sprinkler valve or advanced combustion; finally they try to build a piston and for 95% of members that's it....

if you start on your own and you have no one to tell you what to do you have to be creative... it's harder but in the end you come up with ideas you wouldn't have if you knew that 'ohh I've just finished my 1" sprinkler gun.... so my next project is going to be a 2" piston gun'

some people a little bit too set in their ways ( I am not pointing fingers)


EDIT beaten by rag

[jackssmirkingrevenge]

They don't stick to PVC because of its cost and/or availability there. Because of that, they, like many of you guys in Europe, trend toward smaller gauge metal guns.

I think you'll find that since guns are generally more heavily regulated in Europe than in the US, one tends to go for the smaller more firearm-like calibres to compensate for this. If I was stateside, I'm sure that I wouldn't be bothered much with making small calibre semis and autos, because I could easily and cheaply get myself a 22 rimfire to play with, and therefore I would be more interested in making large cannon-like launchers. If I lived in more open territory and not the urban area I'm currently confined to, rest assured that big bore oversided PVC launchers would be the norm and you would never have heard of pneumatic pen-guns

[POLAND_SPUD]

@JSR true... but I would rather build large bore metal guns for even MOAR power

[sputnick]

HAHAHAHA MOAR power!

oh that made my day, wow, come to think of it, JSR is really predictable

[jonnyboy]

HAHAHAHA MOAR power!

oh that made my day, wow, come to think of it, JSR is really predictable

When I searched jackssmirkingrevenge and epoxy it showed 250 matches.
So yes you can conclude if epoxy or small bore high pressure devices are mentioned you can expect a comment or two from JSR.

[starman]

Not necessarily limits you personally, but it means people will gravitate towards the cheap materials, generating less ingenuity. Working with a smaller set of materials will force people into thinking laterally about what they're doing.

I was using the word "me" as a rhetorical inclusive for "we Americans".

Having access to more materials or tool possibilities typically doesn't limit thinking people...it gives them a better opportunity to positively affect the state-of-the-art. Monkey-see, monkey-do people have their limitations already built in.

I agree, the lack of critical items tends to bring out ingenuity in people. But that ingenuity, just for ingenuity sake doesn't necessarily trump something that could have been made were the critical item available in the first place. I'm not speaking specifically about PVC or steel here but generally. There's not really that much new under the sun, so to speak.

Wallis Barnes is one of my heros!!

[jackssmirkingrevenge]

When I searched jackssmirkingrevenge and epoxy it showed 250 matches.

I use epoxy for all my creations, that's to be expected