competition!!

[Carlman]

Price would not work mate, different countries have different prices for materials, its just too much hard work.

i still vote for same rules as last contest, it produced a gun that would have cost in the hundreds yes but it also gave us one that would cost $5.

EDIT: also i find most of my stuff to make cannons out of

[Biopyro]

Yes I totally agree with bio, if it is part of a gun/cannot be taken out it is budgeted.
One problem. Lets say I make a really simple copper QEV gun. It works off 400psi is a coax. Very simple BUT, I added a wooden stock(this is another problem I will adress in a sec.) a scope or red dot site, laser etc. etc. Do I get refunded all these little "thingi magigas" which really are not crucial to the gun but none the less most probably what caused me to win?

Yes. If you include them in your budget (if the pipe for your gun cost £99 and the budget is £100 you probably won't be able to).
If they aren't included in your budget, you cannot include them in your description or photos in your competition entry post.
It may also be practical to say you can;t post these extras on the site until the competition is over.

Also lets say I make everything my self, stock, fittings all of it I poured in my back yard from scrap aluminium in my waste vegtable oil foundry. I spent 50hours making the gun and the molds all together were worth 5$ in molding sand. What do I get refunded?

This is slightly more of a puzzle. I think that really it should just be the parts you paid for. If you moulded it yourself, it counts as free, if you paid to get it lathed, you budget it. If you bought a block of aluminium, you budget it, if you melted it from recycled drinks cans, you don't.

This part does depend on the size of the bugdet, but really, I think the final cost of your cannon should be what a relatively new spudder would have to pay to replicate your cannon.
I expect that most people will spend thier full budget, so that if the gun only comes to £90 they will spend £10 on a scope.
Also, different categories might need different budgets. Building a £100 mini might not be easy!

[john bunsenburner]

ok that should work, so, everybody has tro keep recipts and we just agree on a conversion at the begining, then we have people add up and convert, they can convert their money any time during the building process so that they know how much they have left over. If every one is fine with this then we settle on a set of rules and conversions between currencies and then make a nice and fresh thread for the whole thing.

Also I have an idea of what to build muahahaha...

But who exactly pays for the parts and all of the winnign cannon, do we have entry money, or do people just donate until we fulfilled our budjet?

[jrrdw]

Hang on just a minute, what is wrong with doin this properly. last time we mentioned competition we just got (no offence to anyone) a cheap excuse for one, when really what we were discusing was the MAJOR one with prizes and so on.

I think before we se anything down at all, jrrdw, that we should talk to PCGUY and see if we can get one of HIS competitions going.

And jrrdw, moonbug has asked for his cannon to be included and you, without any say that your rule or your competition will go ahead, denied him of this. Not cool mate.

So before this turns out to be a mnor cometition PCGUY needs to be presented with our need for a competition and I personaly do not see what it wronng with using the same rulesas the las official competition.

@carlman, it be better if you reread twice what I'm posting instead of automatically calling me out about something. What I highlighted above in red (you posted) is not what I posted. Also I'm not setting the rules, just moderating them, the only 1 is pointing out the new concept, and I all ready explained that.

Yes, it has been mentioned about a complete cannon before. I don't think production cannons should be allowed, you are offering the Venom for sale in your signature, correct?

^This is what I posted^

Guys (all of you), if you can't seem to stick to simple rules instead of adding all the stipulations I really don't see this happening. Keeping it simple keeps it fun.

[psycix]

Ooh nice a contest! I like the rule of "it gotta contain something new"
This will inspire people to build some new ideas.

I think the budget thing is not good. Just have 1st, 2nd and 3rd place rewards.
Why should one get more money if his cannon was more expensive, while someone else who may have used less bought parts and made everything custom, costing less money but more effort would get less prize money if he ended on the same spot.

Sure we should exclude stuff made by companies and production models. It has to be homemade and unique.

[Ragnarok]

Let's be honest, if you're talking about costs between countries, there is little equivalence, so it's not a good way to draw the line on a competition.

When I told people I spent the equivalent of $600 USD making HEAL, one of the responses was "How did you manage that?"
It might be an equivalent amount of money, but it doesn't get you an equivalent amount of parts.

If we're talking about the cost of machining needing to be counted - well, let's say Joe Bloggs has a lathe, so can do it himself, which then gives him an advantage as regards budget.
Or do we have to have a "basic tool construction only"?. Then you have to define basic tools. Does a Dremel count? What about a drill press?

It's going to be nearly impossible to work anything around budget on an international forum anyway - heck, it could be hard across the US alone.

Unless people can find a way that takes into account all of these things in a fair and balanced manner that leaves no-one with any unbalanced advantage over anyone else, the idea of budget restrictions can't work.

It may not even be necessary. After all, last time, JSR came in second with the pengun that he made for sixpence, a toilet roll tube and half a boot lace, so obviously it's possible for cheap to be impressive.

EDIT: Horrible grammar mistakes.

[john bunsenburner]

I just don't like the idea of spending large sums of money and effort for a contest that will not be rewarding. For example at the moment I am building a .22 co ax with a glass fiber stock, an externam chamber, all metal. I will spend about 250 or so CHF(about tthe same in $), if there is no prize at all then i'll wait with it's construction until the next competition. All I am saying is that we should have a reward that is worth trying to get it, how about a discount at one or more of the shops advertised on the site?

[inonickname]

I agree that there should be a fair but restricted set of rules if the budget is so low. For example my shock pump was $70 aud, but I already have the hardened steel, valves, barrel, taps, dies and free access to a lathe and mill. Perhaps things like pumps and the like should only be included in the budget IF they cannot be removed from the gun..like they're salvaged or can be reused.

One for each section, with an overall top 3 would be good. As has been mentioned before, how about an improvised/offbeat section? For things like the coconut spudgun, clide's cardapult and the likes

If we're not counting the cost of certain equipment in consideration I reckon the builder should post a pic of their workplace to give a comparison of what tools they have to use.

[Carlman]

Guys this is getting way out of hand.

Keep it simple stupid, 1st 2nd and 3rd place winners, anyone with any budget can enter, no production models (as said well before "one of a kind"), one entry and voting based off most innovative.

It worked just fine before so why not now.

[Biopyro]

Perhaps things like pumps and the like should only be included in the budget IF they cannot be removed from the gun..like they're salvaged or can be reused.

Exactly what I said

@Carlman: Why do the same thing twice. Lets try to think of something which will really get some new ideas coming through.

[inonickname]

That'll work better. The budget is a bad idea and is full of loopholes and unclear areas.

Could an old entry be removed if say, you make something better?

And are we keeping the "do something new" or are we just doing "whatever".

[Carlman]

the last contest was a huge sucess, it brought us many new concepts and guns

[ramses]

I have an idea about the budget; how about one just makes a bill of materials, and everything is worth a certain ammount of money not related to what it actually cost (this would be like forge in halo 3)

Also, would a removable, universal meter system be included in the budget?

[john bunsenburner]

But how is it fair if Rag who makes a 600$ gun gets 600$ and I who made a 30$ gun get 30$, no it would have to be a set amount of money.(names are random)

[Brian the brain]

Have you considered this:

It doesn;t have to be a complete cannon.
You can enter just a valve, or ignition system perhaps.

The only thing is, it has to be new, never shown here before.
Then we will vote, as jrrdw suggested in a poll.

Poll question is: from wich of these do you think SF will benefit most?


Certainly a 1000 bucks worth peice of machine titanium will not win on the account that nobody else can pull it off.

Just get inventive, no need to waste money on this..