Spudguns on the high seas

[kenbo0422]

so let me get this straight, the fact that I can speak polish and russian (or english with strong eastern accent) makes me seem to be more professional right ?

Actually, in the U.S. you would be considered not only professional, but would undoubtedly command a sense of 'doctorate' of science... Women would faun all over you and men would fear you. Whip out a nasty looking spud gun, and you could clear an area with shock and awe.

U.S. society is so weird.

I've gotta agree with Moonbogg, we could arm those ships with a tremendous improvement to the system, and probably keep 90% of the funding for pizza and pay for tickets to have everyone from the EU and elsewhere flown in for the party.

JSR wrote:

This is a right almost exclusive to the residents of the United States, most of the world's justice systems will prosecute you for harming an intruder.

Just make sure they're inside the doorway. Use a .45, not a cheesy 9mm, and be sure you don't know them.

[jackssmirkingrevenge]

Actually, in the U.S. you would be considered not only professional, but would undoubtedly command a sense of 'doctorate' of science... Women would faun all over you and men would fear you. Whip out a nasty looking spud gun, and you could clear an area with shock and awe.

I have an English accent, would I be expected to have bad teeth

[kenbo0422]

I have an English accent, would I be expected to have bad teeth

Only when you smile.

[psycix]

Just make sure they're inside the doorway. Use a .45, not a cheesy 9mm, and be sure you don't know them.

The USA has way more justice in terms of self-defense.
If I see a guy carrying my computer out of the window, and hit him with a baseball bat it will get me into trouble due to assault, while you guys can legally shoot the crap out of burglars.

In my country, whenever there is a burglar in the house you are supposed to call the police. (so that they can show up 30 minutes later)
And if you want to prevent em from fleeing, all you can do is ask if they want to stop their activities and wait for the police...

[kenbo0422]

In my country, whenever there is a burglar in the house you are supposed to call the police. (so that they can show up 30 minutes later)

So they can take a statement??

Yes, I know of the difference. I was driving from Amsterdam to Eindhoven and saw a 'crime' being committed and that was pretty much the way it had to be handled. Eindhoven had one of our nanoindenter testing machines at the university. I was installing it and teaching them how to use it.

[psycix]

Criminals (including the pirates) go by the law of the toughest. The only way to show them who's the boss is with superior firepower.

People behind desks reject to believe that.

[POLAND_SPUD]

Actually, in the U.S. you would be considered not only professional, but would undoubtedly command a sense of 'doctorate' of science... Women would faun all over you and men would fear you. Whip out a nasty looking spud gun, and you could clear an area with shock and awe.

U.S. society is so weird

seriously...? or are you being ironic ?

In my country, whenever there is a burglar in the house you are supposed to call the police

Nooo, don't even mention this topic.... this really makes my blood boil


now that we are completely off topic we can wait for our new mods to delete this whole page of useless comments...

[jackssmirkingrevenge]

'nuff said

[kenbo0422]

OK, the launcher would have to have a range of 200m, with a payload that disperses like a shotgun. Let's assume it uses golf balls. Let's also make it a combustion/hybrid style cannon designed to be stored on deck in a nondescript box that will double as an armored shield against pirate attack when opened and spread out. It will be operated by one man. Steel construction with OTC hardware parts will be standard BOM. It can be shipped, in pieces to any country without violating any laws, so that the ship can take it on board and have it mounted after leaving port. It can be repacked easily and used elsewhere on other ships. It will be powered by propane. Alternative design is a pneumatic with a compressor. This will allow it to provide its own pressurization and be a totally independent and self contained system. A strong very visible laser will be used to give a good indication of aim and provide an 'uh-oh' factor to the pirates as they approach.

Am I leaving anything out?

[jackssmirkingrevenge]

I would leave out any manner of combustion in order for it to be impossible to be construed as some sort of firearm, and also because the deck of a tanker is likely an Atex zone.

I think the ideal powerplant would be one already available on board, either HPA or steam, to avoid clutter around the unit, though a nearby buffer tank would allow some level of autonomous function should the main supply be cut off for whatever reason.

As a valve, either a large bore pop-off piloted QEV or an enlarged version of this to provide full auto fire fed from a large hopper or easily replacable tube magazine. This would be much easier to aim than a shotgun type shell in a larger bore launcher and allow fire to be appropriately concentrated.

A laser would be useful for psychological reasons but I would also include simple iron sights like the ones fitted to modern grenade launchers to allow for long range indirect fire.

[kenbo0422]

I would leave out any manner of combustion in order for it to be impossible to be construed as some sort of firearm, and also because the deck of a tanker is likely an Atex zone.

Oh, indeed yes. Tankers....

If using steam, a quick connect to a condensate trap would be helpful. I doubt the ability of steam for one reason. If you cut off the supply after charging, you better be firing it immediately or you'll be losing precious pressure so a large amount of insulation will be required. Steam, in most ship applications is several hundred psi, say close to 600 psi for propulsion. If using air, then HPA will have big advantages over the steam. Lots of propulsion plants are large diesels rather than steam, so HPA may be the way to go.

A buffer tank is essential in case the supply gets cut off.

The iron sights from a grenade launcher would do very well in this case since the trajectory will be obviously curved. The simpler the device is, the better it will be used and liked.

Any magazine used needs to have a rather large capacity and be easily changed out and reloaded.

[jackssmirkingrevenge]

Agreed with the condensation problems associated with steam, running on HPA you would not have to engineer it so heavily.

I'm pretty sure any of the experienced fabricators on the sight could knock up something fitting the above specification - sans armoured shield - in a couple of weeks and with a $1,000-$2,000 budget at most.

Any tanker captains listening

[PCGUY]

Some time ago I received a pm via youtube concerning my piston valve videos. This is the actual message, in which he explains why they are interested in pneumatic cannons....

Hi There,

I work for a company that specializes in providing on board security against piracy to vessels transiting the Gulf of Aden. http://www.issg-seamarshals.com

We are already using air cannons of the sprinkler valve design. I am not that happy with the performance and think they could be considerably improved with a piston valve design. Would it be possible to build a piston valve model using uPVC with a 2 inch barrel? In your opinion what do you think would be the best way to go about building such a model?

The reason we are using air cannons are for the following reasons.

1. On LNG tankers and oil carriers it is totally impossible to use firearms because of the safety risks so alternatives have to be looked at.

2. Our security teams generally embark/disembark in Egypt, UAE, and other middle east destinations. It is impossible to bring firearms into these ports. This makes it extremely difficult if not impossible to transport weapons to and from the vessels even if you have certification for the weapons.

Weapons are used by our security teams as a very last resort. Our main objective is to create a defensive posture on any vessel that we protect that will discourage pirates from attacking. We do this by encircling the vessel with razor wire, create highly visable defensive postures, and harden the superstructure of the vessel to make it impossible for any pirates to gain access. Also with the use of fire hoses and maneuvering the vessel we make it extremely difficult for pirates to gain access to the vessl. Our security teams are made up of highly trained naval commando's with years of experience. The last thing we want to do is to encourage the pirates to open fire on the vessel with AK47's and RPG's. Shooting at them encourages them to do just that. We do not show our air cannons until the pirates are right next to the vessel and we are in actual danger of being boarded.

Our main reason for using air cannons is to use them as a device to disable their out board motors or to sink their wooden boats. The range of use is generally only up to a maximum of 50m. Only if the pirates actually manage to climb up the side of the ship do we use air cannons against them as a last resort.

Your advice and expertise would be greatly appreciated in helping us develop a more effective anti piracy device that can be put to good use. If you have any questions please don't hesitate to contact me. My email address is jharris@issg-seamarshals.com If you are a skype user you can add me to your skype. My user name is jkiwi55.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Kind Regards,
Jonathan Harris

I received a similar message from the same person, however after I replied I never heard anything back.

[Ragnarok]

I'd actually quite welcome an opportunity to design things for such purposes. Airguns designed for the purpose of ship defence...

I guess a start would be some kind of large launcher for knocking out boats (ideally semi-automatic), and I reckon that it wouldn't be all to bad an idea to have around something based on the Caselman repeater.
Done well, you knock out their boat with the large cannon, and use the Caselman to lay down covering/return fire if they do start shooting.
You could present a serious defence that way, particularly if the large cannons could also be made to shoot buckshot as a last resort.

When you get to port, disassemble each into their various parts, and then ship them wherever like that.

I'm tempted to get in contact with them myself.

Notice that their webpage is pretty simple/basic?

Possibly not complex, but they've clearly had a graphical designer in - it's far more professional in appearance than the other site.

[jackssmirkingrevenge]

I guess a start would be some kind of large launcher for knocking out boats (ideally semi-automatic), and I reckon that it wouldn't be all to bad an idea to have around something based on the Caselman repeater.
Done well, you knock out their boat with the large cannon, and use the Caselman to lay down covering/return fire if they do start shooting

The Caselman would only be useful at point blank range, plus having "personal weapons", air powered or not, might still raise a few eyebrows. As a close range auto I would advocate a conventional BBMG design, but up the ante by enlarging the parameters. Assuming a pedestal mounted weapon, there would be no problem with using a couple of SCUBA tanks as a reservoir, perhaps regged down to 1,000 psi or so, high flow ball valve feeding the chamber and 10mm ball bearings as ammunition or if you want to appear less belligerent, larger barrel and marbles...