Offical Community Projects Discussion Thread

[Moonbogg]

I believe it would be beneficial to do away with certain limitations, such as budget. If there is a millionaire among us who is willing to finance a project, so be it. Let the cannon rival the best the military could ever dream of offering if it be in the cards.

EDIT: immagine a conduit for the free flowing of not only ideas, but possibilities as well. For instance, perhaps we could have VENT sessions with universal video feeds while we work on CAD models together as well as openly discuss the design in real time, allowing it to evolve rapidly.

EDIT AGAIN: We could utilize the work Dewey has put forth with his library of Sketchup models since google sketch up is available to everyone. If some of us use other programs then those models can be imported to sketchup and allow anyone to freely view and discuss the design around the clock.

EDIT AGAAAAAIN! Napkin sketches can be of just as much value from anyone with an idea. They can scan the sketch in to their computer and it can be posted in the community project file for reference.

[Hubb]

No, those are some options available. It isn't meant for every project. Besides, it may be beneficial to build a certain project (say an automatic pneumatic launcher) for a certain budget (say under $30). If that don't bring out innovation, I really don't know what would.

[POLAND_SPUD]

it seems pretty good as it is but I really don't like one point of it

Specific materials that can be used

as I wrote earlier (sorry for copy-pasta)

I really wouldn't like to see something along the lines of 'only PVC is allowed' but rather something like 'overall weight lower than 10 kg' and 'must be able to penetrate 1/4" steel plate'... (sorry I just can't get over that thing about PVC and the penetration contest)
Wink

this way it would make more sense as contestants would be given complete freedom but they would have to work hard to meet all criteria... so either they reduce weight by using PVC but have to find ways to get more power or they use metal but have to find a way to reduce weight

IMO opinion machining shouldn't be allowed for most projects since it's a community project so most members should be able to build them themselves...
I don't say there can't be a few projects just to show off and build real state of art masterpieces of spudding world...

similarly it's not a good idea to set guidelines on materials as PVC is not available everywhere but metal is... so if you don't specify materials that can be used you can expect more people to participate

[Hubb]

I'm not expecting everyone to participate in the actual build, but everyone's participation in the actual concept and idea is always welcome.

As far as the "Specific materials that can be used", that was just an example of how the goals would be laid out.

[POLAND_SPUD]

I'm not expecting everyone to participate in the actual build

I understand but it would be cool if they could be built (meaning that most projects can be built without machined parts)

I would just like to have it clearly stated that there are won't be any "Specific materials that can be used" in this project so that everyone can work on their own version with materials that they have access to as long as the criteria can be meet (safely)

there is one problem I see right now...
budget, it will be a real PITA to deal with it.... if someone uses machined parts how would it affect costs? just the cost of materials or a rough guesstimate of how much would it cost to machine them by professionals?

also what about different currencies and exchange rates ?? probably we would have to pick one day and use exchange rates from that day...

also I could probably find a bunch of parts that I can buy cheap... so people from countries other than the US would have to convert the price to dollars, right ??

but what if I can build a cheaper launcher than the rest, simply because I can find better offers... for me the launcher would meet criteria but not for those living in US

[Moonbogg]

Where there is a will there is a way. Access to machine shops is not an issue for our members. We could all pitch in for machining costs (if thats what we decided to do) and one of the members with access could get the parts made and then ship those completed parts to another member or members to complete the build. There are other less expensive options as well. For instance, I have previously asked a machine shop if they would let me use their conventional machines at some point and they agreed. I would feel inclined to give them a small fee for the use of their tools to cover wear and just to say thank you. This is just one example of how to work around expensive machine costs.
Also, there are several spudfiles members who own their own lathes. So I don't see why this would be an issue. Most work would be done on a lathe and anything requiring milling could be substituted with a drill press and hole saws provided the design is not overly elaborate.

[Ragnarok]

I wouldn't call microprocessor-operated guns truly automatic.

You very much misunderstand. The ONLY electronic control would be for the ignition. Absolutely everything else would be mechanical - fuelling, loading, venting... if it's not the ignition, it's not electronic. Clear?

If you can do a full-auto hybrid without at least some electronics for the ignition and its synchronisation alongside the mechanical elements, then be my guest.
Unless I'm missing a trick, I think you'd need at least your electronic HV circuit, controlled by both a trigger and a circuit that made sure the chamber was ready. Any microelectronics more complex (although still pretty simple) than that would only be needed for if you wanted to do something that was a bit fancier - 3 shot burst (although bursts of any number would be possible) or a specific rate of fire, for example.

In other words, it would be a purely mechanical semi-auto without one jot of electronics if you simply used a sparker for ignition. The electronics is only there to transform it from a semi-auto up to a full-auto (or, if you wish, burst-fire) system.

[Moonbogg]

I wouldn't call microprocessor-operated guns truly automatic.

You very much misunderstand. The ONLY electronic control would be for the ignition. Absolutely everything else would be mechanical - fuelling, loading, venting... if it's not the ignition, it's not electronic. Clear?

If you can do a full-auto hybrid without at least some electronics for the ignition and its synchronisation alongside the mechanical elements, then be my guest.
Unless I'm missing a trick, I think you'd need at least your electronic HV circuit, controlled by both a trigger and a circuit that made sure the chamber was ready. Any microelectronics more complex (although still pretty simple) than that would only be needed for if you wanted to do something that was a bit fancier - 3 shot burst (although bursts of any number would be possible) or a specific rate of fire, for example.

In other words, it would be a purely mechanical semi-auto without one jot of electronics if you simply used a sparker for ignition. The electronics is only there to transform it from a semi-auto up to a full-auto (or, if you wish, burst-fire) system.

Perhaps electronics could be eliminated by using mechanically actuated piezo ignition.

[POLAND_SPUD]

@moonbogg
it really depends what do you understand by 'community project'

we can either:
work together to build one state of art prototype to show off

or

set guidelines and let members develop their own designs and build them... then present them and let jury or members choose one that meets or exceeds the criteria

[Moonbogg]

@moonbogg
it really depends what do you understand by 'community project'

we can either:
work together to build one state of art prototype to show off

or

set guidelines and let members develop their own designs and build them... then present them and let jury or members choose one that meets or exceeds the criteria

To be honest, both of those ideas sound great! It would be really cool to have everyone participate in a single project, and would be equally cool to have everyone participate and agree on a design or design idea and then have a build off to see who makes it best!

[Ragnarok]

Perhaps electronics could be eliminated by using mechanically actuated piezo ignition.

I've already considered that, and my thoughts are that you'd probably end up with reliability issues.

It's a possibility, but when you've got to decrease reliability and increase complexity dramatically for a result that would actually hurt ROF... it could be done, but it wouldn't really be fit for purpose.

Given that almost all petrol engines fitted to new cars for more years than I've been alive have been fitted with electronic engine management (which controls, amongst other things, ignition timing), I hardly see any problem with doing the same thing on an auto hybrid...

[jrrdw]

electronic engine management (which controls, amongst other things, ignition timing), I hardly see any problem with doing the same thing on an auto hybrid...

Computer controled.....nice idea...

By the way, that type of ignition is adjustable through the computer. Different ROF, power and aiming all at a few keystrokes...

I would really like to see that happen as a result of this project.

[Technician1002]

electronic engine management (which controls, amongst other things, ignition timing), I hardly see any problem with doing the same thing on an auto hybrid...

Computer controled.....nice idea...

By the way, that type of ignition is adjustable through the computer. Different ROF, power and aiming all at a few keystrokes...

I would really like to see that happen as a result of this project.

The full auto bubble gum machine gun I have mentioned as a future project would use a sequencer to vent fuel and fire the launcher. I like the idea if someone wants to build it. The original design is not a hybrid but all the components can be adapted to a piston hybrid. I'm willing to help. I could build the sequencing timer board. It would be analog instead of microprocessor based using 555 timers and counters. I'm not a programmer, and an analog solution for a simple sequence timer would be less expensive. It would be adjustable through potentiometers much like adjusting the volume on a guitar amp.

[jrrdw]

I was thinking controling it with a multifunction joy stick. The military uses Lognitech Wingman Digital 3D joy sticks to fly the Preditor Drones. I have one for my flight simulators, they work great, customizable as well. I'm sleep deprived and day dreaming I guess, it would be neet though.

[maverik94]

Ok, I just love the idea of a community project. A few thoughts on the topic:
1) I think we should make sure we keep ALL submitted material so when finnished, we have a big pool of reference material and ideas to use in later projects.
2) I think we need to make sure we document every single step in the building process so we can then draw up detailed drawings, instructions, and parts-lists. The reason for this is so-that all the members who don't get the original gun can build our own versions of the gun.
3) I agree that we need to elect a project leader soon so we can get started on the design process.
4) This gun needs to be at all the future spud-meets, or whatever you call them so other members can enjoy the gun too.

Anyway, I love the idea because it gives us a chance to work together and have fun and most importantly advance the spudding hobby.