Army drinks bottle combustion chamber?

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ALIHISGREAT
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Sat Dec 20, 2008 11:09 am

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would this make a suitable combustion chamber? i have one spare lying around and its made of pretty tough stuff obviously because its army issue so needs to be strong, i'm unsure of the plastic its made of though.

its 1000cc and i'd epoxy a 1.5" or maybe 28mm copper barrel to the cap and i'd have a ready made burst disc holder!

Thoughts?
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pizlo
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Sat Dec 20, 2008 11:33 am

Is it rigid plastic of sort of bendable?
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Ragnarok
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Sat Dec 20, 2008 11:36 am

No, not a good choice.

I've tested similar shapes and materials, and they don't fare well.
Seriously, I've said it before, and will no doubt say it again, things that have a non-circular cross section are not suitable for pressure use.
Does that thing kinda look like a big cat to you?
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john bunsenburner
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Sat Dec 20, 2008 11:41 am

How come rag? I have figured it because i have not seen many rectangular chambers but i never understood quite why...
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ALIHISGREAT
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Sat Dec 20, 2008 12:12 pm

Ragnarok wrote:No, not a good choice.

I've tested similar shapes and materials, and they don't fare well.
Seriously, I've said it before, and will no doubt say it again, things that have a non-circular cross section are not suitable for pressure use.
ahh well...
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Ragnarok
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Sat Dec 20, 2008 12:53 pm

john bunsenburner wrote:How come rag? I have figured it because i have not seen many rectangular chambers but i never understood quite why...
It creates uneven forces around the circumference.

Take a balloon, and blow it up. It automatically takes a circular shape, because that's where the forces are balanced. Squash in the sides, it will spring back.

You might argue that's because the balloon's made that way (To which I say, if that's the case, then why don't they make oval balloons as well?), but if you take say a plastic milk jug, which is naturally near rectangular or square and blow into it (or alternately, fill it with water and freeze it), you can see the sides bowing out.
Any vessel with pressure in it naturally tries to expand out to a circular shape.

If that vessel was not originally circular, then this creates stresses on it as the forces try to bend the sides.
With a circular vessel to begin with, the only forces involved are the stretching of the sides under pressure, thus reducing the load the parts are put under.

It depends on the exact shape and dimensions of parts, but I've seen vessels very similar in shape, but with relatively thicker walls than army water canteens fail somewhere under 100 psi.

This vessel had walls about 3-4mm thick and was about 2" across it's widest diameter, and in a parallel hydro test against a PVC bottle for a non-carbonated drink, which had walls about 0.5mm thick, and a diameter of about 3", the PVC bottle won out, in spite of the much flimsier walls and higher diameter.

That gives you an idea of how much the strength of a non circular pressure vessel is compromised.
Does that thing kinda look like a big cat to you?
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john bunsenburner
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Sat Dec 20, 2008 1:08 pm

That is what i like about you(and most spudfiles members) you sit down and explain things properly. Thank you that helped me!
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jackssmirkingrevenge
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Sat Dec 20, 2008 1:59 pm

ALIHISGREAT wrote:its made of pretty tough stuff obviously because its army issue so needs to be strong
Nope, it means it's made by the lowest bidder :roll:
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Ragnarok
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Sat Dec 20, 2008 2:16 pm

jackssmirkingrevenge wrote:Nope, it means it's made by the lowest bidder
The man makes a fair point.

And that means that it's just (but usually by a loose definition) capable of what it was designed for, and little more.
Take assault rifles. They usually work just enough that the army doesn't bother to take the time and money replacing them.

I would use a smiley, but it's a rather more serious issue than deserves that.

@john bunsenburner: Not a problem. I quite enjoy explaining things.
Does that thing kinda look like a big cat to you?
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CasinoVanart
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Sat Dec 20, 2008 9:51 pm

C'mon we have used plastic drink bottles for ever, it's not like its going to blow up in his face. It might shrink a bit but thats about all...
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Eddbot
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Sun Dec 21, 2008 1:41 am

What makes you think it would shrink?

hehehe...that rhymed... :D
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jackssmirkingrevenge
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Sun Dec 21, 2008 2:24 am

Eddbot wrote:What makes you think it would shrink?

hehehe...that rhymed... :D
mkay!
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Sun Dec 21, 2008 12:03 pm

Eddbot wrote:What makes you think it would shrink?

hehehe...that rhymed... :D

Have a heat gun? Try it on a PET (water, coke, etc.) bottle and see what happens.

It's a useful technique for making plastic parts using a plug mold. :)
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Ragnarok
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Sun Dec 21, 2008 5:28 pm

CasinoVanart wrote:C'mon we have used plastic drink bottles for ever, it's not like its going to blow up in his face.
We seen use of plastic drinks bottles for a long time, but generally advised against it.

And I assure you, the uneven shape of this canteen will make it a considerably less able pressure vessel than a normal plastic bottle.
I'm serious when I say that off circular vessels are not suitable for pressure.
Does that thing kinda look like a big cat to you?
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Hotwired
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Sun Dec 21, 2008 5:53 pm

It'll be fine as long as that burst disk isn't to make it a hybrid chamber of any note.

I doubt it would shrink from heat, those bottles might well have hot liquid put in them during normal use. A fizzy drinks bottle on the other hand crumples as if it'd been punched in the stomach if you pour a kettle of boiling water into it.
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